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The View from Within - Orrin Keepnews


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In the original edition from 1988, Keepnews held his cards close and refrained from naming names.  Since he still had one foot in the biz, Keepnews was careful not to disparage anyone who might hire him for future projects and deals.  The book is basically a reprise of Keepnews' liner notes rather than an insider's tell-all of the record industry.      

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On 9/25/2019 at 6:19 AM, Dan Gould said:

Or record sessions at which he held and operated a stopwatch.

I believe the stopwatch was actually held by Chris Albertson, as was necessary in those days to make sure that your takes didn't go beyond what would fit onto an LP side.

BTW, in Chris's own words, he continued to use a stopwatch for his own productions, so the use of the stopwatch itself was an accepted practice. Somehow it has come to be applied to Orrin Keepnews as some sort of negative thing he did. For instance, from Chris's old "Stomp Off" blog:

"The exception was a flamenco session Bob (Weinstock of Prestige Records) asked me to do on a few hours notice—to this day, it is my only non-jazz/blues effort. It featured a Spanish Flamenco group, Los Morenos, that seemed to have come out of nowhere on a two-way ticket. I don’t know how good or authentic this group was, but its five members arrived at Rudy Van Gelder’s studio on time, complete with a roll-out dance floor and a routine as tight as any I had seen. They whipped out their castanets, stomped and attitudinized with an impressive flair for the dramatic while I practiced a lesson taken from Orrin’s a&r manual: worked the stopwatch. Unless it was a glaring goof, how would I know when to call for another take? Sound of Flamenco, should you ever come across it, is a self-produced affair."

The blog entry: http://stomp-off.blogspot.com/2009/

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6 minutes ago, bresna said:

I believe the stopwatch was actually held by Chris Albertson, as was necessary in those days to make sure that your takes didn't go beyond what would fit onto an LP side.

BTW, in Chris's own words, he continued to use a stopwatch for his own productions, so the use of the stopwatch itself was an accepted practice. Somehow it has come to be applied to Orrin Keepnews as some sort of negative thing he did. For instance, from Chris's old "Stomp Off" blog:

"The exception was a flamenco session Bob (Weinstock of Prestige Records) asked me to do on a few hours notice—to this day, it is my only non-jazz/blues effort. It featured a Spanish Flamenco group, Los Morenos, that seemed to have come out of nowhere on a two-way ticket. I don’t know how good or authentic this group was, but its five members arrived at Rudy Van Gelder’s studio on time, complete with a roll-out dance floor and a routine as tight as any I had seen. They whipped out their castanets, stomped and attitudinized with an impressive flair for the dramatic while I practiced a lesson taken from Orrin’s a&r manual: worked the stopwatch. Unless it was a glaring goof, how would I know when to call for another take? Sound of Flamenco, should you ever come across it, is a self-produced affair."

The blog entry: http://stomp-off.blogspot.com/2009/

Kevin, Chris definitely regarded Weinstock's involvement in recording sessions as being reduced to operating the stopwatch to know how long the take was going, because Weinstock had no ears to recognize a good or bad take.  The money quote is what I've bolded.

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15 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Kevin, Chris definitely regarded Weinstock's involvement in recording sessions as being reduced to operating the stopwatch to know how long the take was going, because Weinstock had no ears to recognize a good or bad take.  The money quote is what I've bolded.

Chris utilized a stopwatch at a session that had no involvement with Bob Weinstock. Does that mean that Chris had no ears to recognize a good or bad take? It's never good to generalize.

Look, we all know Chris hated Keepnews but whatever happened, it was personal between the two of them. At the same time, I've read of plenty of musicians who liked working with Keepnews. Jimmy Heath comes to mind.

Both of them are now gone so there's no reason to continue this feud in their stead.

Edited by bresna
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Bizarre. It's not that I don't like Mabel Mercer, it's that I don't get her (or any of that type thing). At all.

I get that there's a context and importance in the wake of that, but still...I've had it "explained" to me several times over and I still don't get it.

Guess you had to be there...and I wasn't. Somehow, though, I think I'd still not get it even if I had been.

That and Mozart. :g

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I had an E-mail dialog with him many years ago. In his written word, he was extremely nice and seemed to remember a lot of stuff from back in the day. I wish i saved those E-mails as I don't even remember all the stuff we talked about. I did mention Chris Albertson to him once and he didn't say anything bad about him so on his side at least, there didn't seem to be any rancor.

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Bill Mays shared a story about Alfred Marx, ("the lost Marx Brother, Cheapo") in his memoir. He was recording live with Marx sitting nearby and after a song that Mays thought turned out great, the producer leaned over and said, "Great take," then announced the time from his stopwatch.

Orrin Keepnews may have been crusty, but he produced a lot of great music in his long career, even if you excluded everything after Riverside.

 

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They had to label the tape boxes and session logs and all that stuff. Like Kevin said, no digital timers, and watching a clock on a wall we be a distraction to any other clerical multitasking.

Besides, have you ever seen anybody use a stopwatch without the little fistpumpy action? There's something primal about it that keeps us in touch with our true analog heritage.

Just now, JSngry said:

They had to label the tape boxes and session logs and all that stuff. Like Kevin said, no digital timers, and watching a clock on a wall would be a distraction to any other clerical multitasking.

Besides, have you ever seen anybody use a stopwatch without the little fistpumpy action? There's something primal about it that keeps us in touch with our true analog heritage.

 

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