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JSngry

John Coltrane’s Spiritual High Point

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"We're playing data, we're not playing sound". Interesting quote from Brandford Marsalis. If you don't get the Pentecostal thing, you don't get Albert Ayler either!

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I read it this morning too. As the intro states, there's been a LOT written about Trane, but I thought this piece was interesting and at least original.

 

 

gregmo

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there's a fair amount of that Pentecostal sound on CD; mosty old Document CDs. Incredible stuff.

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Some interesting videos on YouTube also. There's an interesting rhythm to this one, it's one that I detect in a lot of Ayler's music, sound of intensity, calm, intense, single voice, chorus of instruments.

 

Edited by Matthew

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5 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

there's a fair amount of that Pentecostal sound on CD; mosty old Document CDs. Incredible stuff.

I find almost any form of non-secular "religious" music of any continent incredible, as best as I can get to the root impulses of them. But Pentecostal/Sanctified/etc. music in particular....yes. Growing up as I have where/when  I have, even during Segregation, that vibe was something that was always there. And once integration began and people came to school on Monday who had been to church on Sunday...there was a different energy there (and also with White people as well, "Pentecostal" is not just a Black Thing in terms of religious direction). People who just get open and let "it" get all up inside themselves...it's a different energy, for sure.

One of the biggest losses (ok, changes) to our local culture was when 730 KKDA-AM was sold and switched over to a K-Pop format (from Soul 73 to Seoul 73!!!). The old station was really one of the last places that broadcast live Church services on Sunday AM. Not big churches and hi-tech broadcast, but itty-bitty 15 minute live blocks that sounded like they were being phoned in or something, really REALLY tiny congregations with some pretty non-mainstream addresses DEEP in the community. The station also would devote Sunday afternoons to Gospel records old and new, and had on-air prayer sessions with listeners and various ministers.

It's whole other big, big BIG world there, and that's just me as an outside observer. I think we miscast so much of this music if we evaluate it without some kind awareness of that world. Branford's statement rings true in sentiment, although rather than "data" and "sound". I think of it was "phonetics" and "meaning". Either way, though - information and communication through a language of music

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

 

One of the biggest losses (ok, changes) to our local culture was when 730 KKDA-AM was sold and switched over to a K-Pop format (from Soul 73 to Seoul 73!!!). The old station was really one of the last places that broadcast live Church services on Sunday AM. Not big churches and hi-tech broadcast, but itty-bitty 15 minute live blocks that sounded like they were being phoned in or something, really REALLY tiny congregations with some pretty non-mainstream addresses DEEP in the community. The station also would devote Sunday afternoons to Gospel records old and new, and had on-air prayer sessions with listeners and various ministers.

The Light Of The World Pentecostal Church, 2717 Carnation Ave, Fort Worth TX

 

 

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11 hours ago, Matthew said:

If you don't get the Pentecostal thing, you don't get Albert Ayler either!

My unbelieving European ass knows nothing about Pentecostalism, but I get Coltrane and Ayler just fine. But I will listen to these clips posted here later on Monday.

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

I find almost any form of non-secular "religious" music of any continent incredible, as best as I can get to the root impulses of them. But Pentecostal/Sanctified/etc. music in particular....yes. Growing up as I have where/when  I have, even during Segregation, that vibe was something that was always there. And once integration began and people came to school on Monday who had been to church on Sunday...there was a different energy there (and also with White people as well, "Pentecostal" is not just a Black Thing in terms of religious direction). People who just get open and let "it" get all up inside themselves...it's a different energy, for sure.

One of the biggest losses (ok, changes) to our local culture was when 730 KKDA-AM was sold and switched over to a K-Pop format (from Soul 73 to Seoul 73!!!). The old station was really one of the last places that broadcast live Church services on Sunday AM. Not big churches and hi-tech broadcast, but itty-bitty 15 minute live blocks that sounded like they were being phoned in or something, really REALLY tiny congregations with some pretty non-mainstream addresses DEEP in the community. The station also would devote Sunday afternoons to Gospel records old and new, and had on-air prayer sessions with listeners and various ministers.

It's whole other big, big BIG world there, and that's just me as an outside observer. I think we miscast so much of this music if we evaluate it without some kind awareness of that world. Branford's statement rings true in sentiment, although rather than "data" and "sound". I think of it was "phonetics" and "meaning". Either way, though - information and communication through a language of music

Chicago TV used to have a very good Sunday morning gospel music show, the Jubilee Showcase, featuring very good acts, including the likes of Clara Ward. I'd tune in fairly often and one morning I heard an ecstatic teenage saxophonist who sounded quite but like Albert Ayler. Yes, he could have listened to Ayler, but I'll bet not, that instead they both came from  the same  gospel sources. If so, there must be a good many guys like that around. Also of course, though he sound quite a bit like Ayler, his playing was greeted by the audience with much approval.

A typical Jubilee Showcase clip:
 

 Interesting profile of Sid Ordower, the guy who mounted and hosted the show:

http://www.jubileeshowcase.com/about_sid_ordower.html

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Check out this cd for an idea of the deep south religious roots of a bunch of our music.

shcd114.jpg

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I'll take the opportunity offered by this thread to put in a plug for Amazing Grace, the documentary in which the great Aretha Franklin sings with the reverend James Cleveland and his choir. It's not a Pentecostal service per se, but you sure get the spirit of it watching this film.

 

 

gregmo

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17 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Check out this cd for an idea of the deep south religious roots of a bunch of our music.

shcd114.jpg

Listened to this while driving around the Bay Area this morning, very good. Thanks for the recommendation!

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My Name Is...

 

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One thing I vaguely remember Lewis Porter's book emphasizing is that Coltrane's grandfather was in a mainstream Protestant church (AME), *not* a pentecostal one.  Does anyone have the book handy to confirm?  Assuming that's correct, it's interesting to think about how Coltrane would have absorbed this influence.

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13 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

One thing I vaguely remember Lewis Porter's book emphasizing is that Coltrane's grandfather was in a mainstream Protestant church (AME), *not* a pentecostal one.  Does anyone have the book handy to confirm?  Assuming that's correct, it's interesting to think about how Coltrane would have absorbed this influence.

That's also how I remember it, but it was a small town, and even an AME congregation there probably would have been a lot more "regional" than a more "urban" area. Churches  back then (and a few today) were a lot more about the immediate community's culture than about any broader denominational considerations. An AME church in High Point, NC and one in, say, New York, may or may not have followed the exact same worship practices (my money would be on not). Lines got drawn, of course, speaking in tongues is normally the domain of Pentecostals, but past that... Just saying, I would be surprised if Coltrane at that time and in that place wasn't impacted by the overall church environment of his community.

Past/in addition to the speaking in tonugues, there the whol "hooping" thing too, which is apparently becoming a bit of a lost art...find a copy of this somewhere, it's amazingly intense in pretty much every way:

786203.jpg

That guy...worthy of attention, to put it mildly...

 

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