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JSngry

Why Films Look So Cheesy on Your Fancy New TV

17 posts in this topic

https://www.vulture.com/2019/07/motion-smoothing-is-ruining-cinema.html

We have two TVs, one less than a year old, one about five years old. The older one does not have motion smoothing, the new one does. We tend to watch anything "movie"-ish on the one that doesn't,, just because it's in the bedroom and a bed beat a recliner, mostly. But on the new one, when we watch, like old TV shows or cartoons, I thought, wow, this has all been digitally remastered for HD, and Popeye looks 3D, WOW! They got Perry Mason looking like LIVE TV!!!! And I'm thinking, ok, different, extreme, maybe, but it's a new way of looking at old stuff.

Only, I guess it's wrong? For classic films and stuff, yeah, I get the outrage, and seeing the analogy to recorded musics, yeah, the desire to keep the original/basic sensory paradigm is important to me. But otoh, hey, Betty Boop in quasi-3D is fun. Seeing Hamilton Burger get that "oh shit, I'm fucked AGAIN" look like it was live on Playhouse 90 or something is a hoot. Etc.

So, you guys, have you noticed the effect of this, and if so, does it bug you? It says you can turn it off, but I'm not sure I want to right now.

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I use the 4K Retina screen of my iMac for movies and tv shows. I turn the lights low, hook up my Sennheisers and pull my comfy chair in front of my desk. I do have an old 1080p flatscreen stored in my bedroom that gets dragged into the living room when I want to watch sports. When that eventually breaks down, I'll never buy another tv again.

Never had trouble with the motion smoothing effect on my 4K Retina screen.

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/07/motion-smoothing-is-ruining-cinema.html

We have two TVs, one less than a year old, one about five years old. The older one does not have motion smoothing, the new one does. We tend to watch anything "movie"-ish on the one that doesn't,, just because it's in the bedroom and a bed beat a recliner, mostly. But on the new one, when we watch, like old TV shows or cartoons, I thought, wow, this has all been digitally remastered for HD, and Popeye looks 3D, WOW! They got Perry Mason looking like LIVE TV!!!! And I'm thinking, ok, different, extreme, maybe, but it's a new way of looking at old stuff.

Only, I guess it's wrong? For classic films and stuff, yeah, I get the outrage, and seeing the analogy to recorded musics, yeah, the desire to keep the original/basic sensory paradigm is important to me. But otoh, hey, Betty Boop in quasi-3D is fun. Seeing Hamilton Burger get that "oh shit, I'm fucked AGAIN" look like it was live on Playhouse 90 or something is a hoot. Etc.

So, you guys, have you noticed the effect of this, and if so, does it bug you? It says you can turn it off, but I'm not sure I want to right now.

I know what you mean (at least I think I do), the look you describe makes everything look weird, I feel the people are walking in isolation, if that makes any sense. I get a strange vibe that makes for a strange viewing experience.

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1 hour ago, Matthew said:

I know what you mean (at least I think I do), the look you describe makes everything look weird, I feel the people are walking in isolation, if that makes any sense. I get a strange vibe that makes for a strange viewing experience.

Perry Mason looks like it was shot live to video, not film. It's unsettling (at first), probably even "wrong"...but I like it as a shock to the system.

At first I thought it was some "digitally remastered for 3D" thing. Not until this article did I realize otherwise.

But check it out on older animation, that's where it gets really weird...and fun...

 

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aka the "soap opera effect", hence the shot live to video look. 

I haven't made the leap to 4K yet - still using a 1080p plasma panel. When I bought it, the first thing I did upon setting it up was to turn off motion smoothing and crank the torch-level brightness and jacked-up sharpness settings way down. Those changes alone probably got it to within 80% of what a professional calibration could accomplish.

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2 hours ago, Dave Garrett said:

aka the "soap opera effect", hence the shot live to video look. 

I haven't made the leap to 4K yet - still using a 1080p plasma panel. When I bought it, the first thing I did upon setting it up was to turn off motion smoothing and crank the torch-level brightness and jacked-up sharpness settings way down. Those changes alone probably got it to within 80% of what a professional calibration could accomplish.

Sound like good advice.  Anything else you might suggest doing?  

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My brother was renting a room in Richmond a few years ago from a woman who had a big screen TV, but didn't understand that she had the Soap Opera Effect on her set for the last seven years!

When I told her about it, she didn't seem to care. All she watched were live comedian shows, so I guess it didn't bother her. My 4K Sony Bravia 60" has a picture control for Vivid, Custom, and something else. Vivid is only good for football games, which is the only time I use it. Custom is good for movies, etc... Each company calls the 'SOE' something different.

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Like I've said, I actually like it on some things, and really did think it was some next-gen remastering for 3D or something thing. But since it's not, and since they're doing it without telling anybody, and since the musical equivalent would be something like getting the Ellington Blanton/Webster band stuff in Surround sound and not being told about it, then no, don't do that.

Can't stress enough, though, how cool it is to watch Mason & Burger like they're live on video in a real courtroom. So they're a use here. But you don't just make people use it without telling them what's happening, AND not telling them how to opt out of it.

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38 minutes ago, JSngry said:

the musical equivalent would be something like getting the Ellington Blanton/Webster band stuff in Surround sound and not being told about it, then no, don't do that.

 

I actually have that, but it was advertised as such. 

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How did they get it from there to there?

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Posted (edited)

I usually shut off motion effects because they make live football games nauseating. The motion blur when anyone runs down the field just looks wrong. Not live at all.

However, having said that, I do know what Jim is talking about with some older shot-to-video stuff looking better with digital processing. I wonder if it's actually edge enhancement that Jim is seeing rather than motion-smoothing though.

Edited by bresna

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I'm talking about shot-to-film stuff now looking like it was shot-to-video.

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On 10/7/2019 at 7:44 PM, medjuck said:

Sound like good advice.  Anything else you might suggest doing?  

A couple of sites that have general guidelines:

https://success.highfive.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001923611-Recommended-TV-Picture-Settings-all-brands-

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/how-to-calibrate-your-tv

There are other sites out there that have ballpark settings for specific TVs - they can usually be found by Googling the specific manufacturer and model of a TV and "recommended settings".

Going a bit further, there are several calibration discs that can be used to fine-tune things with more precision than generic recommended settings. Spears & Munsil has one for UHD/4K displays:

https://www.amazon.com/Spears-Munsil-Benchmark-Blu-ray-Disc/dp/B07Q2KBDKV

Note the reviews which point out that you have to get the detailed instructions for use from S&M's website as there's no documentation included with the disc. 

S&M also had an earlier version for 1080p displays (Disney's WOW and Digital Video Essentials were two other 1080p calibration discs that were generally well-regarded).

Using one of these discs will get you about as far as you can go short of hiring an ISF-certified professional to calibrate your TV. 

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22 hours ago, JSngry said:

How did they get it from there to there?

Scan.jpg

 

Edited by medjuck

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I once visited a local studio to get some 78's transferred to digitlal, and there was an old crime TV episode being restored in the next room. They took care and watched in real time to receive best results, trusted their eyes and ears. I'm afraid most studios just run a computer program doing the job.

Like CD remastering, it is a matter of time and effort. What tape hiss is to old tapes, low resolution is to a visual medium. When you smoothen it out, it looks less natural, at least to my eyes. 

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They don't tell you schist about making your choice. Sony gives you three choices: Standard, Vivid and Custom. You have to decide if it's a SOE or not. it's not apparent in the names; Standard would seem to be the right choice, but it looks like crap. Custom usually means you can alter something to suit your taste, but that's the right choice. 

I was about to return the TV until I figured that out. My two-year guarantee was about to expire next month, because I got a sick deal on it (a $1,000+ set for $350) on Thanksgiving night.from Best Buy, and the the main or A board burned out. I had to wait a week for the Geek Squad, but they came to my place and fixed it, and it's good as new, free of charge.

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