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Teasing the Korean

The Future of Jazz

80 posts in this topic

If you are a jazz fan like I am, you may lie awake at night worrying about the future of jazz.

It seems that today's generation would rather listen to the Lovin' Spoonful or Young Rascals, rather than Stan Kenton.

So does jazz have a future, given these grim realities?

Rest assured, it does. The answer is Don Sebesky and the Jazz-Rock Syndrome.

 

Edited by Teasing the Korean

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Do you think today’s generation really wants to listen to the Lovin’ Spoonful. 50 years ago? For sure. Today? Don’t think so. Was there a typo there maybe? Just sayin’. 

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I think the future of jazz has more to do with artists like Sons of Kemet and Kamasi Washington and Mary Halverson than Don Sebesky . . . .

Edited by jazzbo

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Your troll was more successful than I would have anticipated

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Don Sebesky had his chance and blew it.

THIS guy, otoh, seen his chance and taked it:

Tip of that iceberg...let's hope there were drugs involved along the way...

 

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By the way, back in the 60s when I was a kid, I was listening to John Sebastian, Beatles, Stones, etc. Jazz? No. What did Zappa say?

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Just now, Brad said:

What did Zappa say?

Help, I'm a rock?

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1 minute ago, JSngry said:

Help, I'm a rock?

“Jazz isn’t dead. It just smells funny.”

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Oh, yeah, that. Well, he's dead now, so jokes on him!

He also said this, which I think is more true now than ever.

quote-most-people-wouldn-t-know-music-if

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I have a feeling that Bud Shank was forced into recording some of those turkeys shared by JSngry. I briefly owned A Spoonful Of Jazz and those rotten arrangements helped me promptly return the LP. It reminds me of Joe Pass' The Stones Jazz, not one of his best albums.

 

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24 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

I have a feeling that Bud Shank was forced into recording some of those turkeys shared by JSngry. I briefly owned A Spoonful Of Jazz and those rotten arrangements helped me promptly return the LP. It reminds me of Joe Pass' The Stones Jazz, not one of his best albums.

 

I’ll take the Spoonful any day. 

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TTK is just bein' his usual "tweaking" self. Ignore if you so choose. Of course, he'll tell you he's being totally serious.

Edited by jlhoots

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I don't think Bud Shank was forced into anything. He had a true hit, remember!

That's what those guys were doing - trying to make money from the music business, and they were succeeding. If not as leaders, then playing all the sessions at double scale. Let's be real about that money thing, It ws GOOD money, and a lot of "jazz players" were making a lot of it.

As for Joe Pass, he did make a real dog for World Pacific (Simplicity), but Stones Jazz was not it. I went decades assuming it was, but then I fianlly heard and said, uh...NO!

Commercial, absolutely, and by intent. But a DOG? Somebody rescue that puppy, and trade it for all those nervous-y Pablo records, ALL of them, actually.

Oh yeah - everybody today LOVES Bob Florence, but back in the day Bob Florence was THE World Pacific commercial Go-To Guy.

It was how people made their lving, why would you ask somebody to not make a good living just because you don't like it?

That's not a bad record, nor is it bad music, it's just easy listening done quite well. Nothing more, nothing less. Just people getting paid and not disrespecting their craft in the process.

It's also a record that I bought for a buck, and I heel like I might have paid a penny or two too much for it, but it don't make me mad like some REAL bullshit does.

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51 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I don't think Bud Shank was forced into anything. He had a true hit, remember!

What was the hit? 

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I've not heard any of those clips before, though I've heard OF some of them.  I actually really like those Joe Pass cuts (will look for CD of them), abhor the Sebesky cut, and find the Shank's somewhere in the middle.    I agree TTK has a marvelous troll on hand here.  Me, I listen to the Lovin' Spoonful, (Young) Rascals, Stan Kenton, Don Sebesky, Bud Shank, and Joe Pass.  All of 'em.  But I'm not "today's generation", I'm their old father or young grandfather.

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I listened to the Joe Pass cuts. They’re passable jazz fare but as jazz versions of the Stones’ songs, simply awful. If I want to listen to Paint it Black, I will stick with the originals. Bud Shank’s Michelle reminds me of elevator or dentist music. Mind you, I’ve never been a big fan of Michelle.  Overplayed in 1965-66 and a little schmaltzy. It’s the weakest song on Rubber Soul, my favorite Beatles album next to Revolver.  If you want to hear a fine jazz interpretation of the Beatles, check out Organissimo’s album, A Soulful Tribute to the Fab Four. Grant Green’s too. 

Edited by Brad

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1 hour ago, Brad said:

  If you want to hear a fine jazz interpretation of the Beatles, check out Organissimo’s album, A Soulful Tribute to the Fab Four. Grant Green’s too. 

What about "Basie's Beatle Bag" IYO?

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7 hours ago, medjuck said:

What was the hit? 

Michelle. The album sold very well among the "easy listening": crowd, and the single made it to #68 on the Hot 100:

https://www.billboard.com/music/bud-shank

The album itself looks like it peaked on #56 on the pop LP charts:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/Billboard-200/1966-06-11

5 hours ago, Brad said:

Bud Shank’s Michelle reminds me of elevator or dentist music. Mind you, I’ve never been a big fan of Michelle.  

You are referring to the actual Bud Shank version of the song, correct? Not to the video I posted, which is another song from the same album, correct?

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Correct, not the video you posted. 

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Well, usually I am pretty optimistic but on this topic not so much. With 29 years old I am pretty young for a jazz fan. And its not a good thing that this is a fact. At jazz concerts, at jazz vinyl/cd stands on a fair I feel truly out of place. With small exceptions I am always the youngest. I don't think the average age attending these kind of things is 55 years old, it is probably more like 65 years old. The fact that David Murray could not even fill up half a Bimhuis, and Atomic couldn't even fill up a quarter.... All worying things I have witnessed. 

On the other hand I sometimes do see some hopeful things :)  A kid from my tutor class (a high school class in the 16-17 age section) was listening to Coltrane making his test. Reminded me of myself, listening to Coltrane's Giant Steps while attending incredibly dull French lessons.

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1 hour ago, Pim said:

Well, usually I am pretty optimistic but on this topic not so much. With 29 years old I am pretty young for a jazz fan. And its not a good thing that this is a fact. At jazz concerts, at jazz vinyl/cd stands on a fair I feel truly out of place. With small exceptions I am always the youngest. I don't think the average age attending these kind of things is 55 years old, it is probably more like 65 years old. The fact that David Murray could not even fill up half a Bimhuis, and Atomic couldn't even fill up a quarter.... All worying things I have witnessed. 

On the other hand I sometimes do see some hopeful things :)  A kid from my tutor class (a high school class in the 16-17 age section) was listening to Coltrane making his test. Reminded me of myself, listening to Coltrane's Giant Steps while attending incredibly dull French lessons.

In today's throw away, here today, gone tomorrow, auto-tuned, pitch corrected culture, few have the time or the patience necessary to study, know and understand a genre of music as diverse and complicated as jazz.  Like others here, I cut my teeth on Elvis and Ricky Nelson in the late 50's.  I grew up in a musical household, so it was a natural for me and my twin brother.  As the 60's morphed into the 70's and early 80's, pop music became less interesting to me.  What took its place was a growing curiosity about where all the music  came from.  I have a clear recollection of buying my first Ellington LP at Portland's venerable Music Millennium as a starting point for my investigative journey.  It opened doors I had no idea even existed and the rest, as they say, is history.  For maybe 10-15 years, all I listened to was jazz.  That required the kind of immersion that hardly exists anymore.  In lieu of it, everyone just keeps looking for the next big thing, leading to 99% of all music having the half-life of a Tse-Tse Fly.  Jazz will always be here, but it's such an acquired taste and one requiring study and commitment, that too few people have the time or the curiosity to be bothered.  

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Regret passing on Michelle in an early/original LP form and later in the (paper-sleeve?) Japanese issue. I’ll get there. 

 

Meantime, as I mentioned in another thread, I’m enjoying the jazzy sophistication of (parts of) Desplat’s score for The Secret Life of Pets 2. 

 

I need to get out more. But, you know, lockdown...

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33 minutes ago, Dave James said:

Jazz will always be here, but it's such an acquired taste and one requiring study and commitment, that too few people have the time or the curiosity to be bothered.  

And ironically, access to the music is more open than ever.  I remember when the idea of hearing some old, out of print Blue Note album (McLean's "A Fickle Sonance" was the holy grail) seemed like nothing more than a pipe dream.

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40 minutes ago, Dave James said:

In today's throw away, here today, gone tomorrow, auto-tuned, pitch corrected culture, few have the time or the patience necessary to study, know and understand a genre of music as diverse and complicated as jazz.  Like others here, I cut my teeth on Elvis and Ricky Nelson in the late 50's.  I grew up in a musical household, so it was a natural for me and my twin brother.  As the 60's morphed into the 70's and early 80's, pop music became less interesting to me.  What took its place was a growing curiosity about where all the music  came from.  I have a clear recollection of buying my first Ellington LP at Portland's venerable Music Millennium as a starting point for my investigative journey.  It opened doors I had no idea even existed and the rest, as they say, is history.  For maybe 10-15 years, all I listened to was jazz.  That required the kind of immersion that hardly exists anymore.  In lieu of it, everyone just keeps looking for the next big thing, leading to 99% of all music having the half-life of a Tse-Tse Fly.  Jazz will always be here, but it's such an acquired taste and one requiring study and commitment, that too few people have the time or the curiosity to be bothered.  

Interesting journey, somewhat similar to mine. My parents had all kinds of music that I listened to: classical, popular, show tunes, you name it. I generally lost interest in popular music and rock after the mid 70s. I was also trying to establish a career and a family so little time for music. When I gravitated back, I wanted something different, which led to jazz.  However, I’ve also returned to the music I grew up with; I went from 0 to 100% jazz (turning my nose up at anything else) to probably 50-50 Jazz and everything else. Life is cyclical. 

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3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Michelle. The album sold very well among the "easy listening": crowd, and the single made it to #68 on the Hot 100:

https://www.billboard.com/music/bud-shank

The album itself looks like it peaked on #56 on the pop LP charts:

 

I was hoping that you were going to tell me that "Brazilliance" had been a hit. 

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