Chuck Nessa

America unleashed

376 posts in this topic

A proportionate response, I'd hope. One that doesn't use one of the world's largest armies to resolve a non-military situation.

Armies against unarmed citizens is rarely s good solution.

My country's history is littered with examples that illustrate this. 

8 minutes ago, felser said:

I don't think it's that simple, I wish it was.  If someone is trying to throw a brick through my window just because, he's my enemy, regardless of where he was born.   There are a lot more parts being played here than are being identified.  There are bad policemen.  There are good policemen.  There are all flavors of politicians, good, bad, and inbetween.  There are victims (George Floyd, his family, countless others who have come before).  There are righteous, courageous, non-violent protestors.  There are people "making the scene"  (and that runs left and right, no persuasion gets a group pass), there are thugs, looters, and thieves taking advantage of the situation and destroying lives.   There are provocateurs on both the left and the right.  And there's the rest of us, left in various states of fear and vulnerability.  Bricks are being thrown through windows a mile from my house.   I hate what happened in front of the white house last night.  I hate what happened to George Floyd.  I also hate what happened to an immigrant family in Delaware I know, who had their lifelong business destroyed by looters.  My wife and I are white.  Our black daughter and black grandson live with us.   I don't want to see a police state.  I also don't want to see my community destroyed or my family harmed.   And not much of anybody out there seems to give a damn about what I don't want at the moment.        

That's a very eloquent exposition, I wish your family and community safe John.

Edited by mjazzg

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1 minute ago, mjazzg said:

A proportionate response, I'd hope. One that doesn't use one of the world's largest armies to resolve a non-military situation.

Armies against unarmed citizens is rarely s good solution.

Again, it's not the simple dichotamy you are laying out.  Believe me, I really want a logical, humane way out of this.

The owner of a gun store in South Philadelphia shot and killed an alleged looter who broke in early Tuesday morning.

A group of four men cut the lock and kicked in the door at Firing Line, Inc. on the 1500 block of South Front Street around 4:13 a.m., according to officials. Greg Isabella, 67, who told police he was spending the night in the shop due to previous break-in attempts, said he heard the individuals walking up the steps to his second floor store and took matters into his own hands.

“He heard them walking up the steps, and one of the individuals who broke into the property pointed a handgun at him,” Philadelphia police inspector Scott Small told Fox 29. “And that’s when the store owner fired his own weapon, striking the one perpetrator at least one time in the head.”

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Yes, I was thinking more of protesters 

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So far the US AG Bill Barr, Sec of Defense Esper, FL representative Gaetz, and AR Senator Cotton have all echoed the president's call to utilize the military against protesting citizens. If the individual state-in-question is open to it via their governor & legislature, then it's a definite possibility. The NY governor has voiced opposition to this action, maybe there's more at this point. 

America unleashed, indeed. 

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1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

I mean, that to me seems like straight up fascism.

flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u6.j

Edited by ghost of miles

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Back in 2016 (well pre-election), based on how the campaign was going, I purchased and read Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism. It wasn't a wrong decision.

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Yes, understood and agreed.  I'd like an alternative offered that will keep my family and community safe the rest of this week.   It's very easy for us to all be righteously against the bad guys in power (I know, I do it all the time).  It's harder to come up with answers that actually deal with the full reality on the ground (which involves both fascist actions from some of those in power and wanton destruction in our streets by some) and will get us through from now to November (and keep the polls open, another concern).   Bashing in a drug store door and stealing the merchandise is not "the revolution" to me.  And attacking peaceful protestors for a photo-op is not "leadership" to me.   And I don't want the army in my neighborhood shooting away.  But I want to be able to go to Target to get groceries without having to dodge bricks coming through the window (not just a hypothetical right now where I live). 

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s-l1600.jpg

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1 hour ago, Dub Modal said:

So far the US AG Bill Barr, Sec of Defense Esper, FL representative Gaetz, and AR Senator Cotton have all echoed the president's call to utilize the military against protesting citizens.

This is not correct.  Protesting is legal in the US. 

The President is suggesting the use of the Army against criminals.  A few minutes ago, a group in Philadelphia used explosives to blow up an ATM in an attempt to get at its money.  That is not protesting.  That is is criminal activity.

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6 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

This is not correct.  Protesting is legal in the US. 

The President is suggesting the use of the Army against criminals.  A few minutes ago, a group in Philadelphia used explosives to blow up an ATM in an attempt to get at its money.  That is not protesting.  That is is criminal activity.

+ 1

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30 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

This is not correct.  Protesting is legal in the US. 

The President is suggesting the use of the Army against criminals.  A few minutes ago, a group in Philadelphia used explosives to blow up an ATM in an attempt to get at its money.  That is not protesting.  That is is criminal activity.

Point out to me please where he’s made that distinction. The article I posted indicated that helicopters were used against citizens who were not looting or stealing. In addition, I don’t want the US military used against crimes such as larceny. That is the jurisdiction of local authorities.

When the US military gets involved in that kind of police activity, it’s a very small step to a military takeover.  Of all the people on the forum, I’m probably one of the few who have seen dictatorships firsthand. I lived in Brasil in 1964 when the military overthrew the popularly elected government of Joao Goulart and unleashed a reign of terror.  I also lived in Spain during the reign of Franco and saw how they operated. Lastly, I was a masters candidate in Latin American Studies when Allende was overthrown. Those memories are seared into my being and I think we’re headed down that road. 

Edited by Brad

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American criminals are not American citizens?

Do tell!

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19 minutes ago, Brad said:

Point out to me please where he’s made that distinction. 

Brad, maybe this will suffice, from a quick look at his tweets today.

"Yesterday was a bad day for the Cuomo Brothers. New York was lost to the looters, thugs, Radical Left, and all others forms of Lowlife & Scum. The Governor refuses to accept my offer of a dominating National Guard. NYC was ripped to pieces."

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1 minute ago, GA Russell said:

Brad, maybe this will suffice, from a quick look at his tweets today.

"Yesterday was a bad day for the Cuomo Brothers. New York was lost to the looters, thugs, Radical Left, and all others forms of Lowlife & Scum. The Governor refuses to accept my offer of a dominating National Guard. NYC was ripped to pieces."

Looters of course are criminals. Thugs are generally, but not always criminals, thuggery itself being an attitude, not an act in and of itself. Being "Radical Left" and "other forms of Lowlife & Scum"....what criminal statutes does that violate? So...1 out of 4.

75% Fail Rate, not good, even in baseball.

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11 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

Brad, maybe this will suffice, from a quick look at his tweets today.

"Yesterday was a bad day for the Cuomo Brothers. New York was lost to the looters, thugs, Radical Left, and all others forms of Lowlife & Scum. The Governor refuses to accept my offer of a dominating National Guard. NYC was ripped to pieces."

You can’t be serious, quoting one of his tweets. At any rate there is no distinction. 

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He should be very careful of what he is tweeting about.  An open call to the Army to take out lowlife scum.  I mean who knows how they might interpret that...

:ph34r:

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Brad said:

Point out to me please where he’s made that distinction. The article I posted indicated that helicopters were used against citizens who were not looting or stealing. In addition, I don’t want the US military used against crimes such as larceny. That is the jurisdiction of local authorities.

When the US military gets involved in that kind of police activity, it’s a very small step to a military takeover.  Of all the people on the forum, I’m probably one of the few who have seen dictatorships firsthand. I lived in Brasil in 1964 when the military overthrew the popularly elected government of Joao Goulart and unleashed a reign of terror.  I also lived in Spain during the reign of Franco and saw how they operated. Lastly, I was a masters candidate in Latin American Studies when Allende was overthrown. Those memories are seared into my being and I think we’re headed down that road. 

Here is the transcript. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/transcript-trump-mobilize-federal-resources-stop-violence-restore/story?id=71008802

 

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19 minutes ago, JSngry said:

American criminals are not American citizens?

Do tell!

Thanks! You got there before I did. 

The use of the military against US citizens usually isn't a good idea, especially in crowded cities or areas where innocent people are going to get caught up in it. 

1 hour ago, GA Russell said:

This is not correct.  Protesting is legal in the US. 

The President is suggesting the use of the Army against criminals.  A few minutes ago, a group in Philadelphia used explosives to blow up an ATM in an attempt to get at its money.  That is not protesting.  That is is criminal activity.

FTR I'm not in support of using any US military personnel as domestic law enforcement. I do not think blowing up an ATM requires that kind of response. 

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deleted

Edited by GA Russell

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1 minute ago, GA Russell said:

Two of my posts have disappeared.  What's going on?

Which posts are those? I'm the only moderator on right now and I've deleted nothing.

18 hours ago, GA Russell said:

We have an 8:00 pm curfew, starting Monday (yesterday).

Our police chief announced Monday that the police will not attempt to defend property.

Here's one that's still here.

2 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Are the critics of bringing in the Army suggesting an alternative solution?

Here's another.

1 hour ago, GA Russell said:

This is not correct.  Protesting is legal in the US. 

The President is suggesting the use of the Army against criminals.  A few minutes ago, a group in Philadelphia used explosives to blow up an ATM in an attempt to get at its money.  That is not protesting.  That is is criminal activity.

and a third.

29 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

Brad, maybe this will suffice, from a quick look at his tweets today.

"Yesterday was a bad day for the Cuomo Brothers. New York was lost to the looters, thugs, Radical Left, and all others forms of Lowlife & Scum. The Governor refuses to accept my offer of a dominating National Guard. NYC was ripped to pieces."

one more.

5 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

deleted

and this.

Accusations of thread-tampering are very serious and are not taken lightly (it's not a crime, but..)

Please advise if your claim of your posts being deleted by anybody other than yourself are accurate.

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29 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

75% Fail Rate, not good, even in baseball.

At least it's above the Mendoza Line (and do I ever miss baseball).

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7 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Thanks! You got there before I did. 

The use of the military against US citizens usually isn't a good idea, especially in crowded cities or areas where innocent people are going to get caught up in it. 

FTR I'm not in support of using any US military personnel as domestic law enforcement. I do not think blowing up an ATM requires that kind of response. 

It was an ATM in a residential area and one of the dudes blew himself up in the process. What if an innocent person got caught up in that? Shit is pretty blatant these days.

 

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