Legitimate Sun Ra labels

[Hot Ptah]

The Sun Ra estate was the subject of litigation and a Judge ruled in favor of one of Sun Ra’s sisters. Her son is now in charge of Sun Ra’s musical legacy and recordings, and retained Irwin Chusid to administer Sun Ra, LLC.

i wrote to Irwin Chusid and asked him which labels which have released Sun Ra’s albums were authorized or unauthorized to do so. Here is his reply:

LEGIT (current) 

Enterplanetary Koncepts (our digital imprint)

Cosmic Myth (our LP/CD imprint)

Modern Harmonic (label partner/licensee)

Strut (label partner/licensee)

 

LEGIT RECENT

 

Corbett vs. Dempsey (label partner/licensee)

Roaratorio (label partner/licensee)

Org (Lion/1201/Da reissues)

Art Yard

Norton

 

LEGIT VINTAGE 

Evidence

ESP-Disk (1960s–1970s only)

Atavistic

Black Saint

Black Lion/1201/Da

Improvising Artists

Delmark

Philly Jazz

A&M

Sweet Earth, Impulse, Blast First, Blue Thumb, Rounder, Y Records, Savoy, BYG-Actuel, Shandar, MPS, Motor, DIW, Inner City, Enja, Meltdown, Steeplechase. 

 

UNAUTHORIZED 

Transparency

Leo

Scorpio (bootleg Saturn replica LPs)

ESP-Disk (2000s)
Limitless Recordings Int'l (bootleg digital)

Enlightenment

Klimt

Jean Dielman

Cherry Red

Cornbread

Greyscale

Poppydisc

Charly

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Hot Ptah

[jazzbo]

Thanks for this!

[mjazzg]

That's really interesting to see, thank you

[jcam_44]

Huh, never thought the Leo releases were unauthorized. 

[mjazzg]

Yeah, that was a surprise to me too

[felser]

And I'm shocked to see Cherry Red on the list.  I'd bet there's more than meets the eye on some of this (isn't there always).

[Hot Ptah]

4 minutes ago, felser said:

And I'm shocked to see Cherry Red on the list.  I'd bet there's more than meets the eye on some of this (isn't there always).

What Irwin Chusid has said to me is that after the Court ruled in favor of one of Sun Ra's sisters, the Sun Ra music legacy began to be run in a business-like fashion by a very responsible Sun Ra nephew. I think that it was all a lot more fast and loose before that. 

[JSngry]

10 minutes ago, felser said:

And I'm shocked to see Cherry Red on the list.  I'd bet there's more than meets the eye on some of this (isn't there always).

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/underground-london-the-art-music-and-free-jazz-that-inspired-a-cultural-revolution-various-artists-3cd-capacity-wallet/

PD, perhaps, but still, "unauthorized", and I'm sure the estate would be happy if you bought that cut from an authorized source.

Full disclosure - I've come THIS close to buying that above comp a few times more than once, but have always ended up deciding that it would be more fun to get the stuff I don't already have on their own, and hopefully from authorized sources.

These kind of conceptual mixtapes are always fun, and often useful (enough), but....I feel less and less inclined to pay for them. After a while, all you really need is a list to go by and you then take the initiative yourself.

[felser]

19 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

These kind of conceptual mixtapes are always fun, and often useful (enough), but....I feel less and less inclined to pay for them. After a while, all you really need is a list to go by and you then take the initiative yourself.

They work great for novices but have limited use beyond that.   I've bought 3 or 4 of their rock ones.  Was happy enough playing them once (and the price and booklets are exemplary) but don't realistically see myself returning to them.  When I was new to the music in the early 70's, Impulse had a 3 LP set called "Energy Essentials" which turned me onto a lot of great artists and albums.  It wouldn't do anything for me today, but was a landmark experience for me then.

[JSngry]

And those impulse! samplers were of their own music and of their own time. Very(?) effective evangelical/promotional tools.

This "Influences On The London Underground" or whatever it is, that's a decent enough premise from which to start, but looking at the contents...it's jsut some more halfass PD musiporn. There's a lot more thoughtful mix to be made on the subject than this, but that would take work, money, and jsut....really caring about doing it right for the sake of getting it right.

[John L]

I am also surprised about Leo, as well as Transparency. 

[GA Russell]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

 

 

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

PD, perhaps, but still, "unauthorized", and I'm sure the estate would be happy if you bought that cut from an authorized source.

 

That was my first thought as well.

[JSngry]

31 minutes ago, John L said:

I am also surprised about Leo, as well as Transparency. 

Leo Fagin does not have a totally spotless reputation, let's put it that way. Remember, he built his label on tapes of great music that had been smuggled out of the USSR. Great taste, and a noble enough cause, but who got paid how much for doing what, exactly?

Transparency is a bit of surprise, but not necessarily. I mean, I believe that they got all that material from sources that they thought was legitimate at the time (and maybe it was), but, you know, maybe the new folks don't see it that way. And in fairness to them, this language is not exactly airtight, legally: https://sunraarchive.webstarts.com/history_of_saturn_records.html

Remember, Sunny had been preparing me all along since the mid 70’s and it would be Alton Abraham and James Bryant after Sunny left the planet and prior to their leaving the planet who would give me complete authorization to do what I needed to do to perpetuate Sunny's legacy as I saw necessary via The Sun Ra Music Archive.

That's an invaluable archive they have, hopefully it all ends well for everybody.

[Hot Ptah]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Leo Fagin does not have a totally spotless reputation, let's put it that way. Remember, he built his label on tapes of great music that had been smuggled out of the USSR. Great taste, and a noble enough cause, but who got paid how much for doing what, exactly?

Transparency is a bit of surprise, but not necessarily. I mean, I believe that they got all that material from sources that they thought was legitimate at the time (and maybe it was), but, you know, maybe the new folks don't see it that way. And in fairness to them, this language is not exactly airtight, legally: https://sunraarchive.webstarts.com/history_of_saturn_records.html

Remember, Sunny had been preparing me all along since the mid 70’s and it would be Alton Abraham and James Bryant after Sunny left the planet and prior to their leaving the planet who would give me complete authorization to do what I needed to do to perpetuate Sunny's legacy as I saw necessary via The Sun Ra Music Archive.

That's an invaluable archive they have, hopefully it all ends well for everybody.

 

13 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

Regarding Transparency, I contacted them over ten years ago and said that I had a cassette tape I had recorded from the radio of a Sun Ra concert. It had been played on a University student radio station. The concert had been presented by a student organization. Transparency wrote back immediately and said, "we'll release it on CD,  just mail it to us." There did not seem to be any process to it at all, and they had not yet heard the cassette. I found that odd and did not mail my cassette to them. 

According to this interview, things seem to have been settled with the Sun Ra Archive, and it is being released by the direct legal successors to the Court-ordered legitimate representatives of the estate. 

http://sunraarkive.blogspot.com/2014/09/exclusive-complete-interview-with-irwin.html

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Hot Ptah

[JSngry]

That blog article is from 2014. when did you get that list?

I'm thinking that the Transparency label stuff is still considered "unauthorized", but that the material itself  is now under "authorized" ownership and is being released accordingly?

[Hot Ptah]

24 minutes ago, JSngry said:

That blog article is from 2014. when did you get that list?

I'm thinking that the Transparency label stuff is still considered "unauthorized", but that the material itself  is now under "authorized" ownership and is being released accordingly?

irwin Chusid emailed me that list this morning (July 5, 2020). 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hot Ptah

[JSngry]

Ah, so he's covering all his bases then - the label should still be considered unauthorized when and where it is found, but all parties concerned are all good.

I'm glad to hear that, really am gald.