African American Players and West Coast Jazz Labels

[Teasing the Korean]

While I am not familiar with the complete catalogs, the rosters of Contemporary and Fantasy seem to be predominantly white artists.

When I think of African American west coast jazz musicians or African American-led west coast jazz sessions, I think of Hampton Hawes, Gerald Wilson, the Nat King Cole Trio, Curtis Amy, Dupree Bolton, Harold Land, Curtis Counce, Jimmy Bond, Leroy Vinegar and the early-ish Eric Dolphy sessions.  

Maybe a dumb question, but did this reflect west coast demographics at the time or stylistic biases?  Or did these labels overtly favor white artists?  I suspect the latter, but have never really looked into this before. 

I have both of the Savoy "Black California" collections, and while there are some familiar names on these, I don't know if some of those musicians lived in LA or simply recorded some sessions while they were in town.  

[BillF]

First impressions (too lazy to do research) are that while there was jazz in California in the 1950s that you would think of as distinctly black (note that album title) and some which has always been thought of as white (e.g. Lennie Niehaus sessions) there was a great deal of mixing when it came to the musicians (e.g. Leroy Vinnegar was everywhere on those predominantly white Contemporary sessions). On the other hand, the musicians' union in California had separate black and white branches (please substitute correct American terminology).

[John L]

Strange - I never thought much about racial bias in Fantasy or Contemporary.   It is true that Fantasy started out with Dave Brubeck and the SF scene that was predominantly white.   Contemporary documented the LA scene, and I guess there was an accent on "cool jazz,"  but they documented much of the black modern jazz scene in LA as well.   It was Contemporary that first took the plunge to record Ornette Coleman.   Was there racism involved?  Probably.  It almost always is.  

[felser]

10 minutes ago, John L said:

It was Contemporary that first took the plunge to record Ornette Coleman.

Also had fine recordings by Teddy Edwards, Howard McGhee. Hampton Hawes, Curtis Counce, Art Farmer, Benny Golson, Sonny Rollins, Cecil Tayor, Joe Gordon, Gerald Wiggins. Sonny Simmons, Prince Lasha, Harold Land, Woody Shaw, Chico Freeman, Ray Brown.

Edited July 7, 2020 by felser

[JSngry]

Businesses are usually run around who you know, who they know, and who can make money for you, and then if there's any left over, for them.

Wasn't it Shelley Manne who brought Ornette to Contemporary, as a composer?

Oh, what is the subject here, west coast jazz or "West Coast Jazz"?

[ghost of miles]

8 minutes ago, felser said:

Also had fine recordings by Teddy Edwards, Howard McGhee. Hampton Hawes, Curtis Counce, Art Farmer, Benny Golson, Sonny Rollins, Cecil Tayor, Joe Gordon, Gerald Wiggins. Sonny Simmons, Prince Lasha, Harold Land, Woody Shaw, Chico Freeman, Ray Brown.

Ditto--as mentioned on the jazz box-set thread, I just pulled this out for revisiting last night, and African-American artists seem well-represented.  I realize it's almost as much of a cliche now to say "'West Coast jazz' was much more diverse than you've been led to believe!" as it's always been to say it was Chet Baker and a buncha Lighthouse All-Stars all playing on a beach somewhere, but Contemporary in particular has a really interesting discography.

[Teasing the Korean]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Oh, what is the subject here, west coast jazz or "West Coast Jazz"?

Well, I was referring to jazz labels geographically based on the west coast.  The degree to which they released music that could stylistically be described as "west coast jazz" could vary. 

[JSngry]

30 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Ditto--as mentioned on the jazz box-set thread, I just pulled this out for revisiting last night, and African-American artists seem well-represented.  I realize it's almost as much of a cliche now to say "'West Coast jazz' was much more diverse than you've been led to believe!" as it's always been to say it was Chet Baker and a buncha Lighthouse All-Stars all playing on a beach somewhere, but Contemporary in particular has a really interesting discography.

If you want to parse that data more fully, look at the chronology.

It's not a coincidence that once Blakey/Silver got popular and started selling records for East Coast labels, West Coast labels followed suit.

You'll want to look for the contemporary classical records, btw, especially the Vernon Duke one!

[ghost of miles]

12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

If you want to parse that data more fully, look at the chronology.

It's not a coincidence that once Blakey/Silver got popular and started selling records for East Coast labels, West Coast labels followed suit.

You'll want to look for the contemporary classical records, btw, especially the Vernon Duke one!

Yeah, gotta admit I didn't know about the classical side of Contemporary, or had forgotten till I started rereading Ginell's essay for the box-set.  Also that Koenig had worked as an assistant to William Wyler on films such as The Best Years Of Our Lives, Detective Story, and Roman Holiday, and that his career in the film industry was apparently derailed by his refusing to name names before HUAC.  Or that he started Good Time Jazz as a vehicle for Firehouse Five Plus Two, and then essentially used the proceeds from the success of that label to indulge his more progressive bent with Contemporary.  This reading stuff, I'll tell ya--it's educational! 

[Larry Kart]

Strange -- I was just listening to a Fresh Sound CD, "Buddy Collette and his West Coast Friends" that combines two tasty 1956 Collette related albums -- his "Tanganyika" (Dig) and drummer Max Albright's "Mood for Max" (Motif). Both were produced by DJ Sleepy Stein (white), the former for a label owned by Johnny Otis (whte, with extensive r&B associations).  Personnel, in addition to Collette (black ) is for "Tanganyika" trumpeter John Anderson (black), reedman Bill Green (black), pianist Gerald Wiggins (black), bassist Curtis Counce (black), drummer Chico Hamilton (black), and guitarist Jim Hall (white).  On "Mood for Max" Albright is white, as are bsss trumpeter/trombonist Dave Wells, reedmen Chuck Gentry and Gene Cipriano; rest of the group is Wiggins, Green, and either Counce or Joe Comfort on bass. Racially mixed music-making par excellence, though the  warm laidback style of both dates is clearly shaped by Collette and Anderson, no "West Coast" frou frou here. BTW, Anderson is quite a player -- sort of a cross between Joe Wilder and Harry Edison with a hint of Benny Carter's trumpet work. Collette is a favorite of mine on all his horns.

[sgcim]

Buddy Collette was the West Coast equivalent of Clark Terry, in terms of breaking into the West Coast recording scene. In CT's being one of the first African American artists to work for the NBC Studio Orchestra, he opened up work for others, like the omni-present  George Duvuvier, Milt Hinton, Osie Johnson, etc...

However, the West Coast was definitely more racist than the East Coast studio scene, with Collette usually the only black man in the band/group/orchestra. His name shows up on more jazz albums led by white musicians, other than Leroy Vinnegar's amazing spurt, and was a very underrated soloist.

I saw Collette on the West Coast jazz TV show, "Club Date", and video taped it, and was blown away by his sound, ideas, and general musicality. It's probably one of my fave videos in my large collection.

[Teasing the Korean]

How could I forget my beloved Buddy Collette?!?

"Jazz Heat, Bongo Beat" on Crown is arguably the greatest album ever made!  

 

Oh, and of course Plas Johnson!

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Teasing the Korean

[sgcim]

15 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Yeah, gotta admit I didn't know about the classical side of Contemporary, or had forgotten till I started rereading Ginell's essay for the box-set.  Also that Koenig had worked as an assistant to William Wyler on films such as The Best Years Of Our Lives, Detective Story, and Roman Holiday, and that his career in the film industry was apparently derailed by his refusing to name names before HUAC.  Or that he started Good Time Jazz as a vehicle for Firehouse Five Plus Two, and then essentially used the proceeds from the success of that label to indulge his more progressive bent with Contemporary.  This reading stuff, I'll tell ya--it's educational! 

"Naming names" could also have a later, "rebound effect in Hollywood. The once prolific David Raksin was scoring films for the top studios in Hollyweird, but after McCarthy was finally taken down, Raksin was only assigned B movies. In interviews, he would attribute it to the radical, dissonant nature of his music, but in reality, his naming names, provided just a temporary push for his career. Once he was denounced as a 'fink' the days of "Laura" and "Separate Tables", gave way to working for less mainstream directors like Curtis Harrington ("Night Tide"), John Cassavetes and Tom Gries. This was followed by the end of the road, TV movies, a 'one way ticket to Palookaville'.

A similar fate was shared by Honegger, whose perceived Nazi collaboration, doomed him to Classical music's version of Palookaville.

[Larry Kart]

17 minutes ago, sgcim said:

"Naming names" could also have a later, "rebound effect in Hollywood. The once prolific David Raksin was scoring films for the top studios in Hollyweird, but after McCarthy was finally taken down, Raksin was only assigned B movies. In interviews, he would attribute it to the radical, dissonant nature of his music, but in reality, his naming names, provided just a temporary push for his career. Once he was denounced as a 'fink' the days of "Laura" and "Separate Tables", gave way to working for less mainstream directors like Curtis Harrington ("Night Tide"), John Cassavetes and Tom Gries. This was followed by the end of the road, TV movies, a 'one way ticket to Palookaville'.

A similar fate was shared by Honegger, whose perceived Nazi collaboration, doomed him to Classical music's version of Palookaville.

There is a singularly unappetizing passage in Victor Navasky's account of the Blackilist, "Naming Names." where he corners Raksin, by all accounts a very gentle man, and browbeats him over his HUAC testimony until Raksin breaks down into tears, at which point Navasky is satisfied. The parallels between the tactics of HUAC's interrogators and those of Navasky seem obvious to me -- they both demanded that their subjects pay for their "crimes" with an acceptably emotional show of contrition. 

[T.D.]

3 hours ago, felser said:

Also had fine recordings by Teddy Edwards, Howard McGhee. Hampton Hawes, Curtis Counce, Art Farmer, Benny Golson, Sonny Rollins, Cecil Tayor, Joe Gordon, Gerald Wiggins. Sonny Simmons, Prince Lasha, Harold Land, Woody Shaw, Chico Freeman, Ray Brown.

I very recently came across the Cecil Taylor Contemporary (Looking Ahead!) and just had to purchase it.

[sgcim]

17 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

There is a singularly unappetizing passage in Victor Navasky's account of the Blackilist, "Naming Names." where he corners Raksin, by all accounts a very gentle man, and browbeats him over his HUAC testimony until Raksin breaks down into tears, at which point Navasky is satisfied. The parallels between the tactics of HUAC's interrogators and those of Navasky seem obvious to me -- they both demanded that their subjects pay for their "crimes" with an acceptably emotional show of contrition. 

Lousy sadists.

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

You'll want to look for the contemporary classical records, btw, especially the Vernon Duke one!

Sounds interesting. 

Coincidental connection: I've been reading a biography of Prokofiev, and it turns out that Prokofiev was friends with Vernon Duke in pre-revolutionary Russia, back when Duke was known as Vladimir Dukelsky.  In fact, the last time that Prokofiev came to the U.S. in the late-1930s, he hung out with Duke in NY before returning to Europe and the U.S.S.R.  

This is like the Kevin Bacon game.  From West Coast jazz to Prokofiev in two steps. 

[JSngry]

14 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

This is like the Kevin Bacon game.  From West Coast jazz to Prokofiev in two steps. 

Check out the bassoonist on this record, Pete Chirstlieb's dad:

Add a step or two and you can go god knows where...from Peter and the Wolf to Deacon Blue....AND BEYOND!!!!

[Larry Kart]

Another step, a sad one. The eminently talented Don Christlieb was IIRC in the forefront of those Hollywod film studio musicians  who named names and pretty much ended the careers of a good many of his colleagues. Probably because many of them were European Jewish emigres and had direct experience of Nazism, the older generation of film studio musicians was a fairly Left-Wing group.

[felser]

2 hours ago, T.D. said:

I very recently came across the Cecil Taylor Contemporary (Looking Ahead!) and just had to purchase it.

It's a unique entry in his canon, with that vibes player on it.

[Larry Kart]

15 minutes ago, felser said:

It's a unique entry in his canon, with that vibes player on it.

That was the Cecil record that really got me big time.

[T.D.]

28 minutes ago, felser said:

It's a unique entry in his canon, with that vibes player on it.

Definitely. But kinda strange to me, hearing it only after a lot of much later Taylor.

I dimly recall a quote in a profile of revered (by me) engineer Roy DuNann about how he found some of the hyper-modern jazz he recorded for Contemporary very strange*. I always assumed that referred just to Ornette, not knowing of the Taylor album. So I checked the credits and indeed, Looking Ahead! was recorded in Nola Studios, NYC, engineers Tommy Nola and Lewis Merritt.

*it's in Stereophile, https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/402roy/index.html

 "What was it like, in 1958, to come in and set up a session for some new musician you didn't know, and hear Ornette Coleman play like that? Jazz was changed forever from that moment. It must have been incredible. You were there, Roy. What did you think?"

In his inflectionless voice, Roy said immediately, "I would have sent him home."

"You would have sent him home."

"Yeah. I got so I could listen to a lot of the jazz stuff and know where one chorus was going to end and the next one begin. It was important for knowing where to make a splice. But with Ornette, you couldn't tell where you were. It just started out and it ended. It wasn't music at all for me."

[Chuck Nessa]

Strange for me to read this stuff 50+ years after I bought the records. I loved them.

[JSngry]

7 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

When I think of African American west coast jazz musicians or African American-led west coast jazz sessions, I think of Hampton Hawes, Gerald Wilson, the Nat King Cole Trio, Curtis Amy, Dupree Bolton, Harold Land, Curtis Counce, Jimmy Bond, Leroy Vinegar and the early-ish Eric Dolphy sessions. 

Think also of Plas Johnson, Oscar Moore, Gerald Wiggins, Teddy Edwards, Red Callender, Sonny Criss, Lawrence Marable, Sonny Clark (sic!)..James Clay, Clora Bryant, who recorded them, and how often? They were there!

But again, look at who was running the labels then, what was selling already, and then where those musicians were, and who was going to call then for a date, and are they going to cold-call, say Richard Bock?

Who would the LA Ike Quebec have been? And who would have valued him?

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Think also of Plas Johnson, Oscar Moore, Gerald Wiggins, Teddy Edwards, Red Callender, Sonny Criss, Lawrence Marable, Sonny Clark (sic!)..James Clay, Clora Bryant, who recorded them, and how often? They were there!

You missed where I mentioned the King Cole Trio.  I was thinking of Moore.  I also mentioned Plas and posted a link to one of his two greatest albums.  (I'll let you guess the other one.)