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LF: Graham Collier Septet - Deep Dark Blue Centre


Dmitry

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The one to go for on CD is the BGO. It flew off the shelves though and is now difficult to find and expensive. First stereo issue on CD.

There was a rumour that Universal were due to put this out on vinyl, CD and digital as part of a new British Jazz reissue series back earlier in the year. Not sure where things are with that but it might be worth hanging fire and seeing if those reissues happen. It will be interesting to see if they find a stereo master.

Edited by sidewinder
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I downloaded the BGO title from iTunes. Graham Collier as I recall was involved with putting the music up on that platform. It was a "three-fer" that also includes "Portraits" and "The Alternate Mosaic." Since I already purchased it iTunes won't tell me the price, but it was certainly much better than the prices of the physical CD on the secondary market. I too would prefer the CD as some point, but my wallet won out as the voice of reason because I'm not typically a downloader.

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1 minute ago, greggery peccary said:

I'd have to revisit it. I have all of the Collier BGO titles and I don't recall their being a clunker in the bunch. I enjoy that stuff that straddles being in/out. I'll have to listen again soon.

Same here, I have that 3some set and recall it all being good.

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3 minutes ago, felser said:

Same here, I have that 3some set and recall it all being good.

As a teenager I had about 40-50 albums. I knew all the tunes, the writers, producers, track lists, etc. Southern rock, Black Sabbath, Ted Nugent, Mountain, foghat, Dixie Dregs, and others.

Fast forward forty years and I have more music that I can ever hope to absorb at that same level. Sometimes more than I can keep track of. Although I keep things filed alphabetically I still end up buying something that I already have about once a year.

I was on a big Graham Collier kick a few years back. I tried it and I liked it so I got all of it that I could...then it was on to the next thing. It's nice to have so much to go back to, but unfortunate that there just isn't enough time to listen in and to really do so with justice. A recent upgrade of my system has me listening intently and with purpose more often once again. Otherwise I had fallen into a pattern of collecting followed by a cursory listen or even worse...relegating new stuff to background music waiting for something to jump out and grab me. It used to be the other way around. Sigh.

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2 hours ago, greggery peccary said:

I'd have to revisit it. I have all of the Collier BGO titles and I don't recall their being a clunker in the bunch. I enjoy that stuff that straddles being in/out. I'll have to listen again soon.

Yeah, if the rest of it is like the DDBC, I'm in! Love the in/out stylistic.

Like Sidewinder says, if it's out early next year, I'll buy the DDBC for sure, otherwise the threefer might be the ticket.

 

 

2 hours ago, greggery peccary said:

As a teenager I had about 40-50 albums. I knew all the tunes, the writers, producers, track lists, etc. Southern rock, Black Sabbath, Ted Nugent, Mountain, foghat, Dixie Dregs, and others.

Fast forward forty years and I have more music that I can ever hope to absorb at that same level. Sometimes more than I can keep track of. Although I keep things filed alphabetically I still end up buying something that I already have about once a year.

I was on a big Graham Collier kick a few years back. I tried it and I liked it so I got all of it that I could...then it was on to the next thing. It's nice to have so much to go back to, but unfortunate that there just isn't enough time to listen in and to really do so with justice. A recent upgrade of my system has me listening intently and with purpose more often once again. Otherwise I had fallen into a pattern of collecting followed by a cursory listen or even worse...relegating new stuff to background music waiting for something to jump out and grab me. It used to be the other way around. Sigh.

I suspect many of us suffer from the same disease - hoarding.

Like the man sang - 

Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines

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This must be the interview that get’s quoted in the Collier biography by Duncan Heining. Interesting. He mentions the Cambridge University Press instructional record and its version of ‘Darius’ - that was the first LP I ever heard of Collier’s, owned by a school music department. I also have a copy - and I think I mentioned it at the time in an email to Graham.

Edited by sidewinder
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Just dug through FreeJazz/Scott's 'premium tiles' and, of course, there are numerous Collier titles. Three of BGO   "3 albums on 2 CDs" sets and also 'Hoarded Dreams' and 'Symphony of Scorpions'.  PM me when you can and I'll check these out. Please note.... I am swamped with holiday stuff still so it might be a few days before I get back with you regarding prices.  

Thx

Mike

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On 12/25/2020 at 3:33 PM, sidewinder said:

This must be the interview that get’s quoted in the Collier biography by Duncan Heining. Interesting. He mentions the Cambridge University Press instructional record and its version of ‘Darius’ - that was the first LP I ever heard of Collier’s, owned by a school music department. I also have a copy - and I think I mentioned it at the time in an email to Graham.

ah cool, I haven't read the bio -- ought to check it out. My to-read pile is embarrassing.

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I came to this material a different way around - through the UK reissue house Whatmusic.com.  What was a bit peculiar about them is that they only had a few British jazz titles.  They mostly were reissuing Brazilian music, and I was turned on to some amazing stuff at very reasonable prices in the early 2000s.  The CD and LP version of Deep Dark Blue Centre are both sold out, but there is a nice mini-essay by Collier still archived on the site - http://www.whatmusic.com/info/productinfo.php?productid=169&menulevel=catalogue&returnurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatmusic.com%2Fcatalogue.php

I don't know if I still have my CD copy.  Probably so, but it would be hard to put my hands on it right now.  I am pretty amazed at how much unissued material by Collier is on iTunes and Spotify, and I'll be listening to a lot of that over this week thanks to being prompted by this thread.  The most intriguing is a suite that Collier wrote inspired by Lowry's Under the Volcano!

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58 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

ah cool, I haven't read the bio -- ought to check it out. My to-read pile is embarrassing.

Definitely get it - A fine biography and an excellent balance between review of a life and review of the music. First rate !

By the way Clifford - you get a mention in it in the footnotes. 

22 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

One of my projects this Xmas is to give that one on BGO another spin. Definitely unique !

Edited by sidewinder
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  • 2 years later...
25 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

This is still unavailable as new. There is one used 3fer 2CD set (Deep Dark Blue Centre / Portraits / The Alternate Mosaics) on Discogs, from a USA-based seller, for $160.

 

The BGO CDs of this sold out quickly and have been out of print for a fair while. I’ve been after a second (safety) copy and never found one at a sensible price.

It’s unique in that the version of ‘Deep Dark..’ was the first stereo CD issue. At the time that the set was put together, even Graham was unaware that a stereo LP had been issued by Deram back in the 60s, as most copies out there are mono.

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18 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

The BGO CDs of this sold out quickly and have been out of print for a fair while. I’ve been after a second (safety) copy and never found one at a sensible price.

It’s unique in that the version of ‘Deep Dark..’ was the first stereo CD issue. At the time that the set was put together, even Graham was unaware that a stereo LP had been issued by Deram back in the 60s, as most copies out there are mono.

The OP Deram LPs safely bring over $300 on eBay. 

Re:stereo vs mono of it. The 2000s LP reissue was mono. I don't know if the reissue label had access to the master tapes, or just ripped it. The hype sticker on the reissue jacket proudly states that it was digitally remastered. 

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21 hours ago, Dmitry said:

Just got one on eBay! It's the early 2000s Disconforme CD. I hope it's sourced from the master tape and not a lp dub.

I’ve just done a check of the Collier bio by Duncan Heining and there’s no mention in there of the source used for the Disconforme CD. What the text does mention is some opinions on ‘lack of warmth’ on the mono Deram issue, which was corrected in the first stereo CD issue included in the BGO twofer. Somewhat gratifying as the source was my LP and I did the LP transfer !  I don’t think Graham and BGO could trace the stereo master in the archive and I guess there must be doubt that they were able to track down any mono master. What I do recall at the time is that Graham was delighted that at least one stereo source for the release had been located and could be used in the CD reissue.

Edited by sidewinder
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40 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

So you did the DDBC LP transfer for the 2cd set...that's wonderful! You must've had a very clean Stereo pressing. How did you transfer it, care to share with us?

Yes, it’s a very good Deram stereo copy, no scratches. The transfer was done using a top-flight LP12 deck with Dynavector cartridge into a Soundblaster card of that era and then on to disk on the PC. I spent a lot of time getting the recording level right to optimise signal to noise and minimising any local sources of RF noise. That version was then expertly cleaned up and processed by the audio engineer, Tom Leader in London, on behalf of BGO. Graham wanted me to send in my LP in the mail but I was a bit nervous about that !

The stereo copies are out there - as confirmed by looking at Discogs. The mono is definitely much more prevalent though. The music has plenty of quiet sections though so for the LP transfer to work you need a pretty good/noise free LP copy.

 

Edited by sidewinder
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