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Rabshakeh

Neo-bop / Young Lions records that you still listen to

82 posts in this topic

Asking this question more out of idle curiousity than anything, really. 

Leaving aside the frequently discussed early Wynton Marsalis albums like Black Codes (which I suppose are part of the "jazz canon" now) does anyone still frequently* listen to any records released by the "Young Lions" or "Neo-Boppers" (or whatever name you want to give the 80s crop of young men in suits playing Blakey or Davis Second Quintet type music)?

*By "frequently" I mean, e.g., "once or twice in the last two years". 

Obviously opinions are divided on the merits of this "movement" as a whole and on Mr. Marsalis in particular. There are plenty of threads on this forum about that already.  I'm just interested in whether people who liked or were tolerant of the development at or around the time still dig those records out, and, if so, which. 

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A few that quickly come to mind:

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The best album from this duo, IMO.

 

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This album had a huge impact on me at the time it was released, and I still enjoy revisiting it.  Kenny Kirkland was a badass.

 

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Another CD that I discovered when it first came out.  McBride digs RAY Brown and JAMES Brown.  So he was never weighed down by silly neo-bop orthodoxy -- even if this particular record channels 60s-era Wayne Shorter.

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None I can think of.

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I like the Blanchard/Harrison albums and the Christopher Hollyday albums.

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7 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

None I can think of.

Same here. Not proud of it, nor is it a statement of any kind. Their music didn't speak to me, that's all. And still doesn't.

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I think the people I listen a great deal to are from a slightly later generation: Eric Alexander, Jim Rotondi, David Hazeltine, John Webber, Joe Farnsworth, Kenny Washington, Peter Washington, Dmitry Baevsky, Mike DiRubbo, Dwayne Burno, Grant Stewart, John Swana, Peter Bernstein, Vincent Herring, Mike LeDonne, Joe Magnarelli.

 

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I would say Greg Osby is often lumped in with the Young Lions, though he was musically all over the place in the 90s and 00s.  St. Louis Shoes may be his most traditional album.

 

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Like Dmitri, I never thought of this stuff as my music but, if it's relevant (and I'm not sure how to categorise it) I still play Ray Drummond's 'Camera in the bag', which of course, has Fathead on it, a good bit.

MG

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I would say two who apprenticed in Horace Silver's group together: Brian Lynch and Ralph Moore.  Lynch remains a creative guy in a variety of settings, one of the better neo-boppers maybe because he has expanded his horizons of his endeavors?

Moore is no different than before, nothing new there but I've always enjoyed his tone and style. He's made some nice records in the last few years since his return to active performing.

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44 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

None I can think of.

Chuck, color me curious: what was the extent of your listening to the neo-boppers of the 80s and 90s, say? Did you retain anyone's CDs even if there's no one you listen to now?  I am always curious how folks who were around "back when" reacted to revivalism.  I would not have pegged you as even listening to much or any of that style at the time.

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3 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Chuck, color me curious: what was the extent of your listening to the neo-boppers of the 80s and 90s, say? Did you retain anyone's CDs even if there's no one you listen to now?  I am always curious how folks who were around "back when" reacted to revivalism.  I would not have pegged you as even listening to much or any of that style at the time.

As a music fan you couldn't avoid it and on top of that I was a record/cd distributor for a lot of this material - Delmark, Criss Cross, Reservoir, etc. I have a few cds by some of those folks.

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I still own some Winston and Bradford (as store customers chronically mispronounced them), as well as some Blanchard & Harrison, Art Blakey of that period, 1 Ralph Moore, 1 Christopher Holliday (who I met, nice guy), and some M-base related stuff from the same era (I wish I'd kept my Gary Thomas), but that's a different thing, as is Joshua Redman, James Carter, etc.  don't listen to any of the afore-mentioned very often.  The two where I wonder why I bought so darned many are Joe Lovano and David Murray.  But back then I was still trying to 'keep up'.  Now, not so much.

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I was going to say that Chuck is a lot broader than he makes out :)

After all, he was at Gator's 'Single action' session, which I play a few times more than once a year. :tup

MG

 

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Just now, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

I was going to say that Chuck is a lot broader than he makes out :)

After all, he was at Gator's 'Single action' session, which I play a few times more than once a year. :tup

MG

 

Strange this should come up now - I was in touch with Bob Porter this week with a question related to Willis.

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15 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

 that's a different thing, as is Joshua Redman, James Carter, etc.  

For some reason, I had both of them down in my head as being part of the Young Lions set. I had been wondering why they were missing from the responses, as both of them made some pretty solid albums that are among the few from the period to which I occasionally listen.

I wasn't around at the time (or I was, but I was digging cutting edge nursery rhymes rather than retro jazz). Why were they perceived as a different thing? Different tailor?

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19 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Strange this should come up now - I was in touch with Bob Porter this week with a question related to Willis.

How is he?

MG

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53 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

For some reason, I had both of them down in my head as being part of the Young Lions set. I had been wondering why they were missing from the responses, as both of them made some pretty solid albums that are among the few from the period to which I occasionally listen.

I wasn't around at the time (or I was, but I was digging cutting edge nursery rhymes rather than retro jazz). Why were they perceived as a different thing? Different tailor?

Some might consider them as part of that thing, depends how wide y0ou cast your net.  I'd say adjacent - slightly later, slightly more wide ranging musically, neither was in the Jazz Messengers, etc.  Definitely a YMMV situation.

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59 minutes ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

How is he?

MG

He said he's "hanging in". Don't know beyond that.

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I've still  got some Wynton and Branford around and some Lovano too (don't think of him as a Young Lion particularly) but don't listen to any of it for pleasure or enlightenment, just keep the Marsalis stuff if I need to cite representative performances in the course of some argument or other.  My memory is that some of the Lovano medium-sized ensemble albums were interesting (e.g the Gunther Schuller one), but I haven't revisited them. Lovano in a blowing setting? Not for me.

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I still listen to all the Kenny Garrett Warner's, the Branford trio records, and Wynton's Live at Blues Alley and Jeff Tain Watts albums so yes, I do as well as Roy Hargrove.  This is the music that inspires Connie Han for example, but I've listened to that stuff for a while, yes.  Joshua Redman Spirit of the Moment.  This is all music that has inspired the generations of players after them like Jeremy Pelt, Ethan Iverson so it's still relevant

Edited by CJ Shearn

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Wasn't Roy Hargrove deemed to be part of that Young Lions group?  I still listen to, and love, his recordings.  Cyrus Chestnut too.  And Winard Harper -- he made several very good recordings back in the day that are worth rehearing.  I have not heard much from him recently though.

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The one early Wynton Marsalis record that has somehow stayed with me is J Mood.   I don't know why, but sometimes I just feel like listening to it.   It has a certain vibe that I like.   

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5 minutes ago, duaneiac said:

Wasn't Roy Hargrove deemed to be part of that Young Lions group?  I still listen to, and love, his recordings.  Cyrus Chestnut too.  And Winard Harper -- he made several very good recordings back in the day that are worth rehearing.  I have not heard much from him recently though.

Absolutely ... and a Marsalis "discovery" IIRC.

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