Brad

Joe Henderson Blue Note 1963-1966

424 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, JSngry said:

It would to me!

Me too!

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, jazzbo said:

They were also reissued in Japan on SHM-CD and they are less compressed than the US cds, sound very good to me.

Yes, they're noticeably better and really draw you in, so it's strange the Tone Poet should sound so close to the domestic CDs.

Edited by erwbol

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We all hear differently.

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I'm only missing 4 alternate takes so naturally I ordered it. Joe Henderson's BN sessions with Kenny D are amongst my favourite sessions .

I've all of the titles on CD and LP ( a real mixture of McMasters, Music Matters, NY monos etc) .  Pretty  much the same situation and thinking lay behind me getting  the recent Mobley set and I didn't regret getting it for one minute. 

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3 hours ago, erwbol said:

Yes, they're noticeably better and really draw you in, so it's strange the Tone Poet should sound so close to the domestic CDs.

When you take a full digital recording and cut it to vinyl, you're not going to get an LP that sounds like an analog master tape cut to LP. You're going to get a digital master tape with some EQ/level changes with added LP playback artifacts like surface noise, wow & flutter, rumble etc. You are certainly not going to be able to render the full dynamic range nor reproduce the full frequency spectrum of that digital master.

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1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

We all hear differently.

LOL! A potentially inflaming remark. :lol:

55 minutes ago, bresna said:

When you take a full digital recording and cut it to vinyl, you're not going to get an LP that sounds like an analog master tape cut to LP. You're going to get a digital master tape with some EQ/level changes with added LP playback artifacts like surface noise, wow & flutter, rumble etc. You are certainly not going to be able to render the full dynamic range nor reproduce the full frequency spectrum of that digital master.

You just shot down so many modern releases that get preferential treatment on vinyl. Young people and their vinyl fetish. If it didn't impact the availability of stuff on CD it would be funny.

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28 minutes ago, erwbol said:

You just shot down so many modern releases that get preferential treatment on vinyl. Young people and their vinyl fetish. If it didn't impact the availability of stuff on CD it would be funny.

Vinyl has had its fans since the cassette days. It'll likely be the top nostalgic format for as long as I'm alive. The only reason I'm back into it is because it's fun. I like the big album art. I even like the rituals... sometimes. Other times, I'm too friggin' lazy to bother. :)

I tell you what though - I don't miss all the shortcomings of vinyl, especially the iffy pressings. Even worse, now that I'm buying old Jazz vinyl, I'm finding a lot of those Jazz labels used shit pressing plants. I once found a mint Prestige LP with bits of paper labels ground up and embedded in the surface. I find a lot of oddball Jazz pressings with visible bubbles in the playback surface. I have a mint-looking Status (Prestige's budget label) that plays back like it's pressed on sandpaper. Mint CTI LPs almost always have crackle. I really don't miss that stuff.

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10 hours ago, erwbol said:

Yes, they're noticeably better and really draw you in, so it's strange the Tone Poet should sound so close to the domestic CDs.

 

14 hours ago, romualdo said:

I have both versions (twofer & SHMs) of the State...... & agree that the SHMs are superb

Another vote of satisfaction for the SHM CDs. Don't have a vinyl setup, but the SHM CDs are a substantial improvement over the domestic CDs, even on my lower-range system, and certainly when I'm listening on my Samsung Buds Live.

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Looking forward to getting this set, though I'll probably wait until after Father's Day, just in case.  I have everything on this set except the few alternates, but it's Mosaic.......

The Complete Joe Henderson Sessions title did confuse me.  I thought it would either be all of the Joe Henderson albums from this time period plus any usable alternates - which would have been a very small set)or everything for Blue Note during this time period on which he appeared - which would have been a rather large set.  I was also confused as to why of all the albums on which he performed were the Kenny Dorham titles included.  Then I found this article which helped me understand:

Joe Henderson and Kenny Dorham

Having read this along with the fact that they had room to include Henderson composed songs from other artists as a bonus helped me to understand how the set came together

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Ed Swinnich said:

Joe Henderson and Kenny Dorham

Having read this along with the fact that they had room to include Henderson composed songs from other artists as a bonus helped me to understand how the set came together

Interesting read

Never noticed on the cover of Page One the omission of McCoy Tyner (indicated by etc) due to his concurrent contract with Impulse

This live broadcast (Flamboyans, Uptown Jazz), three months prior to the Una Mas session is our first recorded/available introduction to the KD/JH pairing

Dorham Flamboyans.jpeg

Edited by romualdo

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I would think the booklet will do a good job of explaining the thinking behind this "Complete" set.

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From speaking to Scott it seems they made a mistake. It should have said 1963-1966 but they don’t plan to correct it. My guess is that’s the slick (if that’s the correct term) have already been printed. 

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Posted (edited)

There are probably better reasons not to go for this set if one has all the music, than there are to actually buy it -  still I preordered. In my case it's not he few alternate takes that are missing or even the sonic upgrade that helped my decision, it's Mosiac Records and the dedication and passion they have brought to their product for the past 30-plus years.This set once again will be a thing of beauty and since we're talking some of Mr Henderson's best work here, I just cannot resist.

What strikes me as remarkable, however, is that even in 2021 Mosaic continues to favour the cd-format for the majority of their releases. Having been bombarded with articles predicting the demise of Compact Disk for over a decade I thought there was only one route for record-companies and that was to go back to vinyl, but apparently the staying-power of the digital disk is greater than expected. So much greater that for Mosaic Records a 'both/and'-strategy for this set is not an option. Some posts in this thread have indicated as to why that might be the case, (Scott Wenzel's take on things was included as well) and I have found these most insightful, so thanks. 

 

Edited by Mark13

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Posted (edited)

Just pulled Una Mas and Page One (first generation US Blue Note CDs) from the shelves - they sound good enough for me. I'm a bigger Mobley than Henderson fan, that's why I got the Mobley on last chance, but with my hearing deficiency in the high frequency range (caused by age and a ball hitting my left ear a few years ago) it isn't really that much of a difference.

Edited by mikeweil

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4 hours ago, Mark13 said:

There are probably better reasons not to go for this set if one has all the music, than there are to actually buy it -  still I preordered. In my case it's not he few alternate takes that are missing or even the sonic upgrade that helped my decision, it's Mosiac Records and the dedication and passion they have brought to their product for the past 30-plus years.This set once again will be a thing of beauty and since we're talking some of Mr Henderson's best work here, I just cannot resist.

What strikes me as remarkable, however, is that even in 2021 Mosaic continues to favour the cd-format for the majority of their releases. Having been bombarded by articles predicting the demise of Compact Disk for over a decade I thought there was only one route for record-companies and that was to go back to vinyl, but apparently the staying-power of the digital disk is greater than expected. So much greater that for Mosaic Records a 'both/and'-strategy for this set is not an option. Some posts in this thread have indicated as to why that might be the case, (Scott Wenzel's take on things was included as well) and I have found these most insightful, so thanks. 

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that they're sticking with CDs too.

My guess is that this is due to the age of Mosaic's target demographic, which I assume skews MUCH older than your typical vinyl-buying consumer. ;) 

 

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I'd rather see Mosaic go full on Bandcamp or another download route than ever do LPs. Leave the vinyl to the Universals of the world who have economies of scale, or the small boutique co's that do one-off or double LPs. Big box sets of vinyl are way outside of the kind of ball park that Mosaic can play in right now. 

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28 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

I'd rather see Mosaic go full on Bandcamp or another download route than ever do LPs. Leave the vinyl to the Universals of the world who have economies of scale, or the small boutique co's that do one-off or double LPs. Big box sets of vinyl are way outside of the kind of ball park that Mosaic can play in right now. 

Dub, I hear you loud-and-clear on the fact that LPs don't necessarily make sense for Mosaic -- especially from a financial feasibility point of view.

OTOH, I think a huge part of Mosaic's appeal is the physical product.  I think it would be difficult for them to migrate to a platform like Bandcamp.  Again, older folks -- take me, for example! ;) -- still really enjoy having something you can hold in your hands.  You lose that with streaming or downloads.

I think that's why Mosaic is sticking with CDs, despite the (relative) ascendance of vinyl.

 

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1 hour ago, HutchFan said:

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that they're sticking with CDs too.

My guess is that this is due to the age of Mosaic's target demographic, which I assume skews MUCH older than your typical vinyl-buying consumer. ;) 

 

It's possible that they've stuck with CDs for the Blue Note material because BN won't license the material for LP. After all, BN is deeply involved with vinyl via its own high-end reissue program (Tone Poet) and "mid-priced" program (Blue Note 80/Classic). I suspect they don't what to undercut their own efforts by licensing LP writes to others. 

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1 minute ago, Mark Stryker said:

It's possible that they've stuck with CDs for the Blue Note material because BN won't license the material for LP. After all, BN is deeply involved with vinyl via its own high-end reissue program (Tone Poet) and "mid-priced" program (Blue Note 80/Classic). I suspect they don't what to undercut their own efforts by licensing LP writes to others. 

Yup.  That makes sense.

 

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Posted (edited)

Other than the Mobley and this Henderson, what other BN sets have they produced recently? Most of it seems to be from other labels, although most are ultimately owned by Universal. I think they stick with CDs because it's in their wheelhouse, financially and aesthetically in terms of what their customers like. 

Wanted to add, my statement above regarding Bandcamp has nothing to do with any of the moronic reviews currently on the Mosaic site for this set. They should scrub that nonsense ASAP. 

Edited by Dub Modal

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9 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Wanted to add, my statement above regarding Bandcamp has nothing to do with any of the moronic reviews currently on the Mosaic site for this set. They should scrub that nonsense ASAP. 

Understood completely.  I didn't assume that at all.  :) 

 

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15 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

Understood completely.  I didn't assume that at all.  :) 

 

No worries :tup I just went over to that site and saw it after I posted and had a cringewince moment. 

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50 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

It's possible that they've stuck with CDs for the Blue Note material because BN won't license the material for LP. After all, BN is deeply involved with vinyl via its own high-end reissue program (Tone Poet) and "mid-priced" program (Blue Note 80/Classic). I suspect they don't what to undercut their own efforts by licensing LP writes to others. 

I would add that they have also licensed Blue Note to Music Matters Jazz and Analogue Productions (although I don’t know if those licenses have ceased and these companies are now just selling remaining inventory) so perhaps Universal doesn’t want another player in the mix.  

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On 2021-04-18 at 7:23 PM, Daniel A said:

Seems to be the complete Joe Henderson leader Blue Note recordings plus everything he did with Dorham plus everything composed by Henderson for other leaders during the same period. 

Small note: it might be everything he composed for other leaders, but not every recording of these compositions; 'The Kicker' was also on the Grant Green album 'Solid', but that version is not included here. 

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Philler with a Purpose!

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