Covid vaccination: poll

[jcam_44]

First Modern scheduled for tomorrow morning. Only crappy part for me is I have to drive from Long Beach to the valley to get it. 

[JSngry]

The AZ thing is having a bumpy road, eh?

[Rooster_Ties]

One of the things cutting into the availability of vaccine here in DC is that to date, something like 40% of doses here (given inside the District, out of the District’s allotment) has gone into the arms of residents from MA and VA (i.e. suburban DC).

All you (they) have to do is work in DC, and a TON of people throughout the metro really do live outside the District (but work in DC).

Anyway, those of us who live in DC are ‘competing’ for shot reservations from a pool of people potentially twice as large as just those who live in the District proper.

And no, they’re NOT asking for verification of employment location, nor of residential address. Also, you do NOT have to provide SNY verification of underlying medical conditions warranting being in an earlier group (or job function). Best as I’m aware, it’s all on the ‘honor’ system — so I’m sure there are lots of people cutting in line (human nature, I realize).

The other thing we’re seeing anecdotally is a clearly disproportionate number of white people getting shots in heavily African American DC wards — but I think that’s more a function of the super-crappy signup process they had for 4-6 weeks, before the new ‘lottery’ system went into place late last week.

The old system rewarded people with the tenacity to push past the page time-outs, and false Capsha challenges (you would have to answer 5 more more different Capshaw questions - all of which would fail no matter if you answered right, because the Capsha widget-plugin they used would hit its maximum threshold something like 80% of the time, all the while serving up new Capsha questions that appeared to fail even when right, because it kept hitting a maximum user limit, with no error feedback to end users).

In short, you had to hit refresh a LOT, and push through all the false negative “I’m not a robot” challenges. And, let’s face it, there were a lot more affluent people who were able to navigate that fucking obstacle course (more like a mine field, really), and the “winners” (NOT seniors, I can tell you that) were gobbling up all the spots.

The new lottery system is MUCH fairer, even though you can still game it (somewhat) by lying about underlying conditions. So while perfect, it’s at least better than the utter disaster they had before since January or early February (whenever it came online).

I’m not complaining for myself — my number will come up whenever it does. Just describing the evolving situation here.

Also, given the near 90% rate of mask-wearing here in the district — I’m sure there are few vaccine-a-phobes here — making the pool of people enthusiastically wanting to get vaccinated about as high as probably anywhere in the country (I would guess).

[Dub Modal]

2nd Pfizer didn't bother me at all thankfully. Neither shot did, other than an arm bruise at the injection site each time with the first being the worst. I'm thinking that because I actually got the stuff that my system was ready for whatever those shots had. The friends I have that got it without having the virus all had varying degrees of side effects but none lasted longer than a day. 

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

The AZ thing is having a bumpy road, eh?

48 hours after my AZ dose and after a feverish first night I'm experiencing some fatigue. 

All messages here are that it's safe and that the "abundance of caution" level being applied elsewhere isn't realistic. But then we would say that as we continue to use it on hundreds of thousands a day.

BBC radio report has just mentioned that the Guardian is reporting more instances of blood clots actually found in Pfizer administration.

My only observation is that so many UK residents have now been vaccinated with AZ I would have thought any major issues would have become apparent here too.

There does seem to be a cause/effect dilemma here. 

[sonnymax]

10 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

There does seem to be a cause/effect dilemma here. 

Not necessarily. From the Washington Post, "The European Medicines Agency said it was investigating [reported cases of blood clots], but noted there was no indication of a connection to the vaccine. The company [AstraZeneca] said on March 14 that the number of cases -- 37 out of 17 million shots administered -- was lower than what would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of that size. It also said that participants getting the vaccine in studies had fewer clots than those given placebo."

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

The AZ thing is having a bumpy road, eh?

Probably doesn't help that, apparently, vaccine hesitancy is worse in the EU than it is in the US. That surprised me, seeing it this morning.  

 

[Brad]

49 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Probably doesn't help that, apparently, vaccine hesitancy is worse in the EU than it is in the US. That surprised me, seeing it this morning.  

 

The vaccine rollout has been botched over in Europe, per this article, https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/16/world/covid-19-coronavirus

In addition, in one of The NY Times newsletters I receive made the following points about why Europe has done poorly.

1. Too much bureaucracy

While the U.S. and other countries rushed to sign agreements with vaccine makers, the E.U. first tried to make sure all 27 of its member countries agreed on how to approach the negotiations. Europe chose “to prioritize process over speed and to put solidarity between E.U. countries ahead of giving individual governments more room to maneuver,” Jillian Deutsch and Sarah Wheatonwrite for Politico Europe.

The result was slower regulatory approval of the vaccines and delayed agreements to buy doses, forcing Europe to wait in line behind countries that moved faster.

2. Penny-wise and pound-foolish

Europe put a big emphasis on negotiating a low price for vaccine doses. Israeli officials, by contrast, were willing to pay a premium to receive doses quickly. Israel has paid around $25 per Pfizer dose, and the U.S. pays about $20 per dose. The E.U. pays from $15 to $19.

The discounted price became another reason that Europe had to wait in line behind other countries. Even in purely economic terms, the trade-off will probably be a bad one: Each $1 saved per vaccine dose might ultimately add up to $1 billion — a rounding error in a trading bloc with a nearly $20 trillion annual economic output. A single additional lockdown, like the one Italy announced this week, could wipe out any savings.

“The price difference is macroeconomically irrelevant,” Münchau writes. The E.U. “tried to lock in a perceived short-term price advantage at the expense of everything else.”

3. Vaccine skepticism

“Europe is the world’s epicenter of vaccine skepticism,” Deutsch and Wheaton of Politico Europe write. That skepticism predated Covid, and now its consequences are becoming clear.

In a survey published in the journal Nature Medicine, residents of 19 countries were asked if they would take a Covid vaccine that had been “proven safe and effective.” In China, 89 percent of people said yes. In the U.S., 75 percent did. The shares were lower across most of Europe: 68 percent in Germany, 65 percent in Sweden, 59 percent in France and 56 percent in Poland.

The skepticism helps explain Europe’s latest vaccination problem. About a dozen countries, including France and Germany, have suspended the use of one of the continent’s primary vaccines, from AstraZeneca, citing concerns about blood clots.

But the evidence that the vaccine causes clots is thin. Europe’s main drug regulator still says the benefits outweigh the risks. And Ann Taylor, AstraZeneca’s chief medical officer, has pointed out that the rate of clotting among vaccinated Europeans is lower than “would be expected among the general population.”

Dr. Muge Cevik, a virus expert at the University of St. Andrews, told me yesterday that it was always important to scrutinize vaccines. But, she added, “I would say the benefits of the A.Z. vaccine in preventing Covid, hospitalization and death outweigh the risks of side effects, especially in the middle of the pandemic.”

[kh1958]

Monday monring  I received the first does of the Moderna vaccine. Other than a very slightly sore arm, there have been no side effects at all.

[sidewinder]

4 hours ago, mjazzg said:

48 hours after my AZ dose and after a feverish first night I'm experiencing some fatigue. 

All messages here are that it's safe and that the "abundance of caution" level being applied elsewhere isn't realistic. But then we would say that as we continue to use it on hundreds of thousands a day.

BBC radio report has just mentioned that the Guardian is reporting more instances of blood clots actually found in Pfizer administration.

My only observation is that so many UK residents have now been vaccinated with AZ I would have thought any major issues would have become apparent here too.

There does seem to be a cause/effect dilemma here. 

Other than a slightly sore left arm and a hint of a yawn next day, nil effects for me. Hardly any different from my usual flu shot.

Must be around 20 million over here who have now had this so-called super risky jab. Sadly, the dilly dallying by various officialdoms in the deluded pursuit of ‘zero risk’ will have consequences.

Edited March 16, 2021 by sidewinder

[porcy62]

15 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Must be around 20 million over here who have now had this so-called super risky jab. Sadly, the dilly dallying by various officialdoms in the deluded pursuit of ‘zero risk’ will have consequences.

It seems to me that the biggest error about AZ vaccine is that EU governments, for whatever reasons, overtaked the Scientific Authorities, EMA, etc.. Now if I'd have a scientific board I'd listen to it rather then headlines or the fears of my voters. It is also true that the relation AZ/EU hasn't been great because the affair of the supposed doses hijacked to UK and the cutting of supplies for EU.

The quoted above NYT article is mainly correct IMMV.

[Chuck Nessa]

21 hours ago, kh1958 said:

Monday monring  I received the first does of the Moderna vaccine. Other than a very slightly sore arm, there have been no side effects at all.

I had the same reaction to the first shot - had the 2nd on Monday and it knocked me out. I slept most of yesterday with slight chills and aches. Still trying to figure out how I am today.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Chuck Nessa

[kh1958]

57 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

I had the same reaction to the first shot - had the 2nd on Monday and it knocked me out. I slept most of yesterday with slight chills and aches. Still trying to figure out how I am today.

Sounds like I better not make big plans for April 12.

[mjzee]

Just had my second Pfizer shot.  Sitting now in the recovery room.

[Dan Gould]

And apparently the EU is keeping AZ vaccinations on ice even longer? And that's based on 37 instances of clots per 17 million doses? 

I also was reading that each day without vaccinations would lead to a certain number of deaths - like 10,000 not vaccinated one day, 15 would die eventually. Even if that were 100,000 vaccinations not done in a day = 15 deaths, that's way the hell worse odds and results than 37 instances of clotting out of 17 million doses.

Mind-blowing and as much as our European friends worried about the deaths and suffering in the US, I'm afraid that we're going to be as close to normal in the coming months (as normal as can be expected) and the EU is going to still be suffering.

[Guy Berger]

3 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

And apparently the EU is keeping AZ vaccinations on ice even longer? And that's based on 37 instances of clots per 17 million doses? 

I also was reading that each day without vaccinations would lead to a certain number of deaths - like 10,000 not vaccinated one day, 15 would die eventually. Even if that were 100,000 vaccinations not done in a day = 15 deaths, that's way the hell worse odds and results than 37 instances of clotting out of 17 million doses.

Mind-blowing and as much as our European friends worried about the deaths and suffering in the US, I'm afraid that we're going to be as close to normal in the coming months (as normal as can be expected) and the EU is going to still be suffering.

The vaccination doesn't CAUSE clots.  They just crop up periodically in a very large population, just like all sorts of other medical phenomena.  Check out this tweet on reported side effects for AZ and Pfizer in the UK, side by side. 

 

I'm not sure what the right decision here is from a public health perspective.  On the one hand, delaying vaccinations will result in a lot of extra deaths.  On the other hand, having vaccines that are available but are not used due to distrust will result in a lot of extra deaths.  And I am not sure whether the temporary suspension helps or harms that 2nd consideration.  (i.e. does the suspension improve or reduce trust in AZ?)

I really hope that European vaccination gets back on track soon.  Too many people have died of this horrible illness.

On a happier note, I'm happy to see so many fellow board members getting vaccinated!!! 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Guy Berger

[JSngry]

40 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

On a happier note, I'm happy to see so many fellow board members getting vaccinated!!! 

This!

[danasgoodstuff]

Got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday.

[optatio]

Got my first shot of Biontech this morning. I've waited a long time, despite prioritization - 80+ ...

[Dan Gould]

I just got an email headline from the South Florida Sun Sentinel that the Gov. lowered the age to 50 this morning (I was hoping he'd stick to five year increments instead).

To my shock and amazement, I was able - practically instantly - to book Moderna for Monday evening at the Publix nearest the house, with follow up also auto-booked for April 19.

Unfortunately, neither I nor my mom's home helper have been able to get her booked, and Publix doesn't even have Lee or Collier County available in their pull-down menu.  Will have to keep working on that.

[Dan Gould]

6 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I just got an email headline from the South Florida Sun Sentinel that the Gov. lowered the age to 50 this morning (I was hoping he'd stick to five year increments instead).

To my shock and amazement, I was able - practically instantly - to book Moderna for Monday evening at the Publix nearest the house, with follow up also auto-booked for April 19.

Unfortunately, neither I nor my mom's home helper have been able to get her booked, and Publix doesn't even have Lee or Collier County available in their pull-down menu.  Will have to keep working on that.

Now I'm pissed.

Got a call from Publix to verify appointment. Told I am not eligible as far as they are concerned because the state website isn't caught up and still says 60 years old or proof of co-morbidity, even though the Governor made the announcement and it is all over the news. So now I have to wait for the website to update and I suspect (being a pessimist by nature) that getting an appointment won't be nearly so easy, and will continue that way for weeks to come.

[jlhoots]

9 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Now I'm pissed.

Got a call from Publix to verify appointment. Told I am not eligible as far as they are concerned because the state website isn't caught up and still says 60 years old or proof of co-morbidity, even though the Governor made the announcement and it is all over the news. So now I have to wait for the website to update and I suspect (being a pessimist by nature) that getting an appointment won't be nearly so easy, and will continue that way for weeks to come.

Well, of course, your governor, sorry to say, Is kind of a moron.  Hope you get your vaccine soon.

[Dan Gould]

1 minute ago, jlhoots said:

Well, of course, your governor, sorry to say, Is kind of a moron.  Hope you get your vaccine soon.

I am not a fan but this is not about the governor. He announced the change, effective Monday, when I had a booked appointment. Publix isn't following the plot and they are on my shit list.

[JSngry]

Devil is in the details...announcements without backend coordination are just so much Joe Henderson Mosaic.

[Dan Gould]

17 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Devil is in the details...announcements without backend coordination are just so much Joe Henderson Mosaic.

Yeah but when you can hear it on the radio, see it on TV, and get it on your phone, just approve the damn appointment.

This is Florida, not New York, where they threatened $10,000 fines for administering dosages to ineligible people.