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clifford_thornton

Freddie Redd (1928-2021)

78 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

First I’ve ever heard of Ornette and Redd ever having done anything related — though from that thread, it’s not at all clear that they actually ever recorded TOGETHER. And regardless, I don’t know that Flea and Ornette appearing on-stage together once (together) counts either.

No, I was thinking of an entirely different person — and both times this person recorded with Freddie and Flea, it was for regular studio sessions (released as regular albums, both on major labels in fact).

 

 

 

Here is the movie!

Definitely Ornette Music with lots of strings, and Freddie in a quartet with Philly Joe, Al McKibbon and Teddy Edwards.

Who can grab the audio?

(143) Box Office (1981) dir. Josef Bogdonavich full movie - YouTube

 

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2 hours ago, bertrand said:

You have me stumped, but I know nothing about Flea. Not James Taylor, I assume. Freddie plays organ on Carolina On My Mind.

No, not James Taylor (who as far as I know, has no RHCP connections).

A few more hints: our mystery musician played on a number (quite a number?) of 1960’s Motown recordings (uncredited), including with Stevie Wonder.

By my count, I own ~15 CD’s with our mystery man, well over half of which are leader-dates under his own name (or as co-leader).

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Posted (edited)

Regarding "The Box Office", check out the credits under "Music" and then "Songs".  Under "Music", there is a long list of notable jazz musicians included in a big band and a quartet.  If you scroll through the movie, there is at least one brief scene with a big band and then a quartet, which crashes through a wall. That quartet includes Teddy Edwards, Philly Joe Jones and Freddie Redd.  

https://catalog.afi.com/Film/56736-BOXOFFICE?cxt=filmography

Josef Bogdanovich was the producer, writer and director of this film.  It appears to be the only movie he was involved in.  Apparently, Bogdanovich was a scion of the family that created and ran the Star-Kist Tuna company.  Internet research indicates that after the movie, he became involved in the reggae music industry. 

Edited by cliffpeterson

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8 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

A few more hints: our mystery musician played on a number (quite a number?) of 1960’s Motown recordings (uncredited), including with Stevie Wonder.

Michael Carvin?

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38 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Michael Carvin?

Afraid not. Last hint: It’s a horn player.

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Phil Ranelin.

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7 hours ago, cliffpeterson said:

Regarding "The Box Office", check out the credits under "Music" and then "Songs".  Under "Music", there is a long list of notable jazz musicians included in a big band and a quartet.  If you scroll through the movie, there is at least one brief scene with a big band and then a quartet, which crashes through a wall. That quartet includes Teddy Edwards, Philly Joe Jones and Freddie Redd.  

https://catalog.afi.com/Film/56736-BOXOFFICE?cxt=filmography

Josef Bogdanovich was the producer, writer and director of this film.  It appears to be the only movie he was involved in.  Apparently, Bogdanovich was a scion of the family that created and ran the Star-Kist Tuna company.  Internet research indicates that after the movie, he became involved in the reggae music industry. 

I am wondering if it the same guy in all cases.

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Posted (edited)

I scrolled through the film a bit. I see the quartet scene. The Ornette music is some Prime Time stuff, and some large group with strings. At some point, the quartet performance and the strings are heard together.

Freddie is co-author on the songs. Ornette wrote one song with lyrics. All very, very weird.

It would be nice to isolate the actual Ornette tracks, they were obviously recorded in a studio separately. But yada, yada, yada, no commercial potential. I wonder if the quartet piece is live. Possibly not.

Edited by bertrand

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On 19.3.2021 at 3:32 AM, Mark Stryker said:

And Bud’s “I’ll Keep Loving You.”

Yes, really ! Glad you mentioned this !

Thanks, Gh.

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On 3/18/2021 at 7:53 PM, felser said:

 

I'm surprised that's been up for as long as it has. Milestone Films has the rights to many of Shirley Clarke's films, and they will not hesitate to have YouTube issue a DMCA takedown notice if someone uploads one. 

In addition to THE CONNECTION, they've also released ORNETTE: MADE IN AMERICA on DVD:

https://milestonefilms.com/collections/shirley-clarke

 

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Made in America is rad, love it.

speaking of Ornette, a buddy of mine re-set Chappaqua to include Ornette's music for the film rather than the revised soundtrack, and screened it locally (very DIY-style). It was much better!

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Man, would LOVE to see that. The recording is soooo good.

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I just listening to the Freddie Redd trio in Sweden  album on Fresh Sound. There was a striking similarity to the playing of Elmo Hope.  Freddie Redd pointed to the importance of both Bud Powell and Thelonious Monk as influences,

That same thing is true for Elmo Hope.

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23 hours ago, bertrand said:

Man, would LOVE to see that. The recording is soooo good.

yeah, it was totally illegal but very fun to see.

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2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, it was totally illegal but very fun to see.

As Fawn Hall would say, sometimes you have to go above the written law.

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Was admission charged?

 

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Then not illegal!

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13 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

I just listening to the Freddie Redd trio in Sweden  album on Fresh Sound. There was a striking similarity to the playing of Elmo Hope.  Freddie Redd pointed to the importance of both Bud Powell and Thelonious Monk as influences,

That same thing is true for Elmo Hope.

I read somewhere that Bud, Elmo and Freddie Redd sometimes met Monk at his place and would play and listen to each other and discuss chords etc. 

I don´t know the swedish album. But from the other records of Freddie Redd I have not noticed much similarity to Elmo Hope. Elmo Hope somehow had a strange style. His right hand is very much in the high register, and the chords from the left hand are in the deep register. He plays very fast, but I think Bud had more melody in his lines. Hope sometimes sounds more dissonant, abstract. 

 

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I'd ignored Redd's Blues because of poor reviews around the time the CD was released. I've been giving the session a listen and whilst it's clearly not a top drawer BN it still has plenty of interest. Jackie and Tina and what must have been a rare BN appearance by Benny Bailey. So its a bit like Lee Morgan's The Rajah , easy to see why it wasn't released at the time but well worth its belated release. It lacks the urgency of The Connection which is a favourite of mine but I'm happy i picked it up (cheaply!)

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2 hours ago, Clunky said:

easy to see why it wasn't released at the time but well worth its belated release. It lacks the urgency of The Connection which is a favourite of mine but I'm happy i picked it up (cheaply!)

Didn't the notes from the Freddie Redd Mosaic box say that that session went unreleased partly because Lion and Freddie got into a shouting match about it?

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2 hours ago, bresna said:

Didn't the notes from the Freddie Redd Mosaic box say that that session went unreleased partly because Lion and Freddie got into a shouting match about it?

Something to that effect. Also, I seem to recall Lion feeling like the band was under-rehearsed.

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Freddie told me at some point he got an axe. I wish I could have gotten the story on tape. I think he got himself banned from Blue Note forever.

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RIP... I'm not really all that familiar with his playing

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