Bob Porter has died

[Dan Gould]

"most" is a pretty good weasel word too.

 

[bertrand]

6 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

What recording was it, Bertrand?

He can be right, and he can be wrong.  Transition didn't have great distribution, right? But finding an original Transition release maybe really hard but it doesn't mean those Donald Byrd records are bad.

OTOH I used a recording by Jimmy Colvin on my last BFT, the whole record is awesome, IMHO, and probably about as rare as hen's teeth. So its one of those "rare" records that didn't deserve it's fate in the marketplace? In the end its about expectations, and in many cases, "crazy collector" syndrome, too. 

Michael did not say which record it was.

The main issue here, I think is that this is an LP which had been released at some point. There are many factors that would make an LP hard to find, and how 'good' the record is is rather a minor factor in the equation, IMHO. Is Kind Of Blue the best jazz record ever made, and that is why it is easy to find?

Now unissued sessions or live tapes is another matter. But they were talking about a released session. 

 

 

[mjzee]

7 hours ago, bertrand said:

Michael Cuscuna shared his personal recollections somewhere. This intrigued me:

I mentioned to Bob that I had finally found one of the rare LPs on my want list and it was very disappointing. With a strong stare in my direction, he intoned, "you know, most rare records are rare for very good reason." 

I somewhat disagree with this statement. Discuss.

 

 

 

 

This is one of those glib statements that, if Porter reflected upon it, he'd probably rephrase or withdraw it.  Looking at the table of contents of his Soul Jazz book, he extols Illinois Jacquet, Hank Crawford, Jimmy McGriff, and Groove Holmes (to name just a few).  For all of these musicians, the bulk of their catalog has been and still is very difficult to find.

[Brad]

It’s one of those statements that tend to elicit a chuckle but aren’t necessarily true on reflection. 

[Big Beat Steve]

21 hours ago, Brad said:

It’s one of those statements that tend to elicit a chuckle but aren’t necessarily true on reflection. 

I guess many can chuckle because - as several forumists have hinted at before - this can be interpreted and discussed any number of ways and STILL be true because you just cannot generalize:

- Very low pressing run = rare - but bad? Maybe yes, maybe no.

- Poor distribution = rare. Bad? Maybe yes, maybe no.

- A record that bombed and didn't sell because it WAS bad and therefore became rare? No doubt such cases exist. And I guess that in the flood of LP releases of the 50s (much bemoaned by many scribes st the time) there must have been quite a few of these.

- Are there collectors who value rarity as an end in itself and tend to hear the music on the platter through rose-colored glases and find qualities in it that wasn't seen at the time (which is why the record dropped dead on release)? You bet there are! For a number of highly subjective reasons. Not least of all because criteria of "good" or "bad" can be subjective too.

So this can be an endless discussion, with no definite judgment possible in many cases.

 

[mikeweil]

Porter was one of the busiest and most knowledgeable reissue producers. Just found his name on this one:

https://img.discogs.com/oZLmOpR6r8HAZDhyL4c4ex3CmVg=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2185807-1386549241-6740.jpeg.jpg

Edited April 17, 2021 by mikeweil

[Rabshakeh]

6 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I guess many can chuckle because - as several forumists have hinted at before - this can be interpreted and discussed any number of ways and STILL be true because you just cannot generalize:

- Very low pressing run = rare - but bad? Maybe yes, maybe no.

- Poor distribution = rare. Bad? Maybe yes, maybe no.

- A record that bombed and didn't sell because it WAS bad and therefore became rare? No doubt such cases exist. And I guess that in the flood of LP releases of the 50s (much bemoaned by many scribes st the time) there must have been quite a few of these.

- Are there collectors who value rarity as an end in itself and tend to hear the music on the platter through rose-colored glases and find qualities in it that wasn't seen at the time (which is why the record dropped dead on release)? You bet there are! For a number of highly subjective reasons. Not least of all because criteria of "good" or "bad" can be subjective too.

So this can be an endless discussion, with no definite judgment possible in many cases.

 

Plus a lot of records that were judged bad at the time but have since emerged as classics as a result of changing tastes or values. There are plenty of "rare groove" or "spiritual jazz" records that fall into that category: classic examples of a genre that did not actually exist at the time.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Rabshakeh

[Brad]

JazzWax mentioned Bob Porter in its column today and linked two prior posts about him.

Bob Porter on Soul Jazz

Bob Porter on Organ Combos

In these posts he mentions Akiko Tsuruga. I had never heard of her but I think she sounds darn good. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Brad

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

when theyre talking about "drone settings" is that when they just hold down the one note of does the b3 lock that note in somehow- 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

On 17/04/2021 at 7:41 PM, Brad said:

JazzWax mentioned Bob Porter in its column today and linked two prior posts about him.

Bob Porter on Soul Jazz

Bob Porter on Organ Combos

In these posts he mentions Akiko Tsuruga. I had never heard of her but I think she sounds darn good. 

I didn't know. Damn, but he was good!

OK, the link to him on organ combos contains corroborative info relating to Gator, Allen Lowe and the dentist.

"Gator could be a pain in the ass, but he and Bill Jennings worked so well together that I have forgotten everything but the good stuff."

MG