Teasing the Korean Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Art Blakey's The Drum Suite was released on Columbia in 1957. Bobby Montez's Jungle Fantastique was released on Jubilee in 1958. Blakey's album includes a track titled "Oscalypso," credited to Oscar Pettiford, who plays bass on the album. Montez's album includes a track called "African Fantasy," credited to Montez. The melodies are very similar. I don't know if it is a routine pattern that was often played over tumbaos or other grooves, but I don't think I've heard this precise riff on other Latin records. I wonder what the story is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 When this gets settled, can I get to choose between Oscar Peterson & Chris Montez? I think that would be easier! It's the same riff, different keys, and/but both have different publishers. I would leant towards trusting Columbia over Jubilee, but I don't know if I'd lean towards either of the actually writing it, if you know what I mean. Sounds kinda vernacular-y to me, or at the least "in the vernacular"-y. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Modal Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 That Blakey track is fantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, JSngry said: When this gets settled, can I get to choose between Oscar Peterson & Chris Montez? I think that would be easier! No, I'm talking about Neal Hefti Oscar Pedersen, the European bassist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Oh, the N-ternational House Of Pancakes guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dub Modal said: That Blakey track is fantastic The whole side of the album is great. The Drum Suite is IMO much better than any of Blakey's Blue Note drum/percussion albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Modal Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Just now, Teasing the Korean said: The whole side of the album is great. The Drum Suite is IMO much better than any of Blakey's Blue Note drum/percussion albums. I've never given this one an ear, but I've heard some of those BN's and at this point I'm in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dub Modal said: That Blakey track is fantastic The Montez is pretty good too, think I found the LP on a blog a few years back and was pleasantly surprised how "real" it was. Sometimes you don't know, you see something like that and thing, uh-oh, ersatzic, surely. But this was not, this was just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Modal Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 minute ago, JSngry said: The Montez is pretty good too, think I found the LP on a blog a few years back and was pleasantly surprised how "real" it was. Sometimes you don't know, you see something like that and thing, uh-oh, ersatzic, surely. But this was not, this was just fine. Listening now. Yeah, the percussion with vibes is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Just now, Dub Modal said: I've never given this one an ear, but I've heard some of those BN's and at this point I'm in agreement. Side 1 is The Drum Suite, and side 2 is the Jazz Messengers doing their thang. The Columbia album grooves much more. As I wrote in another thread, my problem with the Blue Note albums is Blakey sounds like he's fighting against the African/Latin grooves, rather than grooving with them, and I don't mean going against them in a rhythmically interesting or compelling way either. Hoping that Mike Weil will waddle into the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Modal Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Just now, Teasing the Korean said: Side 1 is The Drum Suite, and side 2 is the Jazz Messengers doing their thang. The Columbia album grooves much more. As I wrote in another thread, my problem with the Blue Note albums is Blakey sounds like he's fighting against the African/Latin grooves, rather than grooving with them, and I don't mean going against them in a rhythmically interesting or compelling way either. That's a good way to put it. When I heard them my reaction was that it sounded contrived and forced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Dub Modal said: That's a good way to put it. When I heard them my reaction was that it sounded contrived and forced. In fairness, some of those Blue Note tracks work better than others, and you could assemble a decent compilation with the best tracks from all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 The Bobby Montez theme is "borrowed" from the second part/phrase of Tito Puente's "Philadelphia Mambo". Cal Tjader also recorded that tune. both versions predate Montez'. Pettiford et al might have heard either version. It was a popular track on the Latin Jazz scene. Montez sure is Puente and Tjader influenced, as was probably every Latin vibes player after the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, mikeweil said: The Bobby Montez theme is "borrowed" from the second part/phrase of Tito Puente's "Philadelphia Mambo". Cal Tjader also recorded that tune. both versions predate Montez'. Pettiford et al might have heard either version. It was a popular track on the Latin Jazz scene. Montez sure is Puente and Tjader influenced, as was probably every Latin vibes player after the two. Thank you! I wonder what Puente's reaction was to the other two tunes. Better yet, I wonder what the publisher's reaction was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 Since starting this thread, I picked up Jungle Fantastique. Prior to this, I had only "African Fantasy" on a Blue Note comp. The whole album is great! Side 1 is like an exotica album, and side 2 is more straight ahead Latin jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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