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Your Early Parameters for Buying or Avoiding Certain Jazz Albums


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33 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

Yep, I agree 100%.

Especially today. Fifty years ago, it might have been someone like Ellington or Armstrong. But, with the passing of time, Miles' importance and reach seem far greater.

Years ago, I remember reading an article in one of the jazz magazines -- probably Downbeat or Jazz Times -- about people's entry points into jazz. Miles' name came up again and again and again. It was crazy!

As for "Why is that?", I think Miles had many things going for him. Foremost, he was a musical genius -- but it was much more than just that.  Miles' music continually evolved, so there are MANY stylistic doors through which listeners can enter: bebop, cool, hard-bop, post-bop, funk, rock, pop-jazz, and so on. He also had Big Red, Columbia Records, behind him, making sure that he wasn't going to be below ANYONE'S radar. Finally, his larger-than-life, protean persona also helped make him an icon. He's always had the cachet, the "X" factor. Brooks Brothers dapper or Prince of Darkness. Either way, Miles was --and is -- the epitome of cool.

I think it's all those factors that make Miles THE starting point for listeners coming to jazz for the first time.

Agreed.  I would argue that Bernard Herrmann fulfills a similar function as a gateway into film music.  His association with so many cult directors - Welles, Hitchcock, dePalma, Truffaut, Harryhausen - must be partially responsible.  And like Miles, Herrmann's career spanned a number of styles and periods.  Considering that his first film score is Citizen Kane and his last is Taxi Driver, you know you're in for a wild ride.

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1 minute ago, Larry Kart said:

Years and years ago I dreamt that I was in Rose Records on S. Wabash St. in Chicago,  and I found an album that featured Jack Teagarden and Paul Desmond. They played "Stars Fell on Alabama,"a Teagarden favorite, with Desmond embellishing the melody around and above Big T.

Sounds like a lovely dream!

 

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On 9/9/2021 at 11:30 AM, HutchFan said:

So I feel like that whole 70s Jazz thing was my SECOND discovery of jazz.  I realized that I shouldn't or couldn't necessarily trust any "critical consensus."  You have to listen for yourself and make your own determinations.  And those conclusions -- the personal ones -- are the things that matter MUCH more than any collectively-settled-upon facts or canon.  For our conceptions to be truly meaningful, it's got to be something that we assemble ourselves from the parts that make sense to us, and those things are largely subjective and contextual and personal and contingent. To use a religious metaphor, we all have to "work out our musical salvation in private."

That's one of the reasons that I love this board so much.  I'm continually reminded of the fact that other people hear things that I don't hear while simultaneously being shown that there are also many people who do hear what I hear -- and that's comforting because listening to this music often can be a lonely pursuit. 

This is great writing.

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5 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Agreed.  I would argue that Bernard Herrmann fulfills a similar function as a gateway into film music.  His association with so many cult directors - Welles, Hitchcock, dePalma, Truffaut, Harryhausen - must be partially responsible.  And like Miles, Herrmann's career spanned a number of styles and periods.  Considering that his first film score is Citizen Kane and his last is Taxi Driver, you know you're in for a wild ride.

Great analogy! 👍

 

4 minutes ago, mjzee said:

This is great writing.

Thanks.  :)

 

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1 hour ago, HutchFan said:

Yep, I agree 100%.

Especially today. Fifty years ago, it might have been someone like Ellington or Armstrong. But, with the passing of time, Miles' importance and reach seem far greater.

Years ago, I remember reading an article in one of the jazz magazines -- probably Downbeat or Jazz Times -- about people's entry points into jazz. Miles' name came up again and again and again. It was crazy!

As for "Why is that?", I think Miles had many things going for him. Foremost, he was a musical genius -- but it was much more than just that.  Miles' music continually evolved, so there are MANY stylistic doors through which listeners can enter: bebop, cool, hard-bop, post-bop, funk, rock, pop-jazz, and so on. He also had Big Red, Columbia Records, behind him, making sure that he wasn't going to be below ANYONE'S radar. Finally, his larger-than-life, protean persona also helped make him an icon. He's always had the cachet, the "X" factor. Brooks Brothers dapper or Prince of Darkness. Either way, Miles was --and is -- the epitome of cool.

I think it's all those factors that make Miles THE starting point for listeners coming to jazz for the first time.

Agreed, but I'd take exception to your "fifty years ago". As related above, Miles was an important entry point into jazz for me in 1958, which is 63 years ago. For me, it was the 1954 Miles, Monk, Milt, Klook session that was so inspirational, but had we been able to get them, the "Walkin', etc Prestige albums were already there, not to mention Miles Ahead, which I heard on release, and Milestones. 

By 1958 I also knew Miles as a Parker sideman, as I owned an LP of the Savoy tracks.

 

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1 hour ago, BillF said:

Agreed, but I'd take exception to your "fifty years ago". As related above, Miles was an important entry point into jazz for me in 1958, which is 63 years ago. For me, it was the 1954 Miles, Monk, Milt, Klook session that was so inspirational, but had we been able to get them, the "Walkin', etc Prestige albums were already there, not to mention Miles Ahead, which I heard on release, and Milestones. 

By 1958 I also knew Miles as a Parker sideman, as I owned an LP of the Savoy tracks.

 

Oh, that's cool. I'm sure that Miles was already pulling people like yourself into jazz at that time. I would just be less certain that he was the MOST influential in bringing in new jazz listeners back then.

... But he well could have been! 😉

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4 hours ago, HutchFan said:

 

I think it's all those factors that make Miles THE starting point for listeners coming to jazz for the first time.

I dare say you're right, as far as new jazz fans coming in after the early fifties. But surely the millions and millions around the world who came in after hearing the Goodman, Ellington, Basie bands would well outnumber those developing a taste for a music with a declining audience.

MG

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Living in the sticks, the printed page drove me to be curious about all these records by all these people whose records I (mostly) could not find.

20760485942.jpg

In order, by chapter, with record recommndations:

  1. Gerry Mulligan
  2. Thelonious Monk
  3. Art Blakey
  4. Miles Davis
  5. Sonny Rollins
  6. The Modern Jazz Quartet
  7. Charles Mingus
  8. Paul Desmond
  9. Ray Charles
  10. John Coltrane
  11. Cecil Taylor
  12. Ornette Coleman

all of these people were alive and still making records when I read this book (repeatedly), so knowing who they were and how they got their, their backstories as they call them now, that really helped.

Hell, damn near everybody was still alive then! Louis Armstrong died, like, my first month of high school, but Duke lived until my next-to last day.

It was a very....non-static time in which to get into this music.

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16 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

In addition to what I learned through my parents, I had four good jazz resources in the generally suburban area where we lived:

  • A weekly AM radio big band/swing show
  • A community FM radio station that played jazz on weeknights Monday-Thursday
  • An NPR station that played jazz after 11; I would go to sleep with this.
  • Peaches Records, which had an extensive jazz LP section, including affordable twofers, and a massive cutout bin.

I was listening primarily to acoustic jazz in high school, but a friend had Bitches Brew, and we used to get high to it.  At around this time, I picked up In a Silent Way, based on some things I read, and I thought it was simultaneously more interesting while also providing a good chill out vibe.  To this day, I much prefer In a Silent Way to Bitches Brew.

Either way, I think it is a safe to say that Miles has served as a jazz entry point for more listeners than any other single jazz artist.

My absolute jazz entry, before I heard Bitches Brew, was "Steaming". Soon after that I had "Miles in Antibes" and then "Bitches Brew". So I had a mini history of Miles within 3 albums (First Quintet, Seconde Quintet, electric Miles). 

But how can you handle my writing about my lack of passion for Brubeck ? :lol:

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7 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

My absolute jazz entry, before I heard Bitches Brew, was "Steaming". Soon after that I had "Miles in Antibes" and then "Bitches Brew". So I had a mini history of Miles within 3 albums (First Quintet, Seconde Quintet, electric Miles). 

But how can you handle my writing about my lack of passion for Brubeck ? :lol:

I had Round Midnight and Kind of Blue before I had In a Silent Way, and before I heard Bitches Brew.  I also had Miles on the Charlie Parker Savoy box.

Not sure what you are asking about Dave Brubeck, though...

 

 

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I remember getting blown away by IASWIn A Silent Way so hard. 

My closest friend's dad is a bit of a fried ex hippy, and gave my friend the middle name "Zawinul". Noone knows why, because he's not a bit Weather Report fan, but it meant that we hit Heavy Weather and Mercy Mercy quote early on, long before proper jazz investigations began. But In A Silent Way was the first time I really got into Joe Zawinul. 

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As a high school student I recall mentioning to my Biology teacher that I was listening to Tribute to Jack Johnson and In a Silent Way.  He told me that I needed to investigate Nefertiti.  He was so right, and soon I started appreciating Miles records that didn't have electric guitars and basses. I found that the occasional teacher or older brother could radically alter my purchasing parameters by making suggestions etc

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My entry to jazz was via Rhythm & Blues. Growing up in Detroit, R&B was all over the radio in the 50's. Over a couple of years my ears became focused on the often exciting tenor sax solos that I heard in the middle of the record. That led me to look for recordings featuring wild tenor players such as Big Jay McNeely. From there it was on to the tenor sax battles on JATP records by Illinois Jacquet and Flip Phillips.

Detroit had a number of excellent record stores some of which were heavily devoted to jazz. One such record shop seemed to have every new jazz record as soon as it was released. The shop was willing to plays small parts of an LP that I was considering. The person behind the counter was very hip and would recommend things to me that were almost always in my area of interest. I would hang out in that record shop at least once a week, and usually came home with a couple of LPs.

At the same time I discovered 3 or 4 discount stores that has bins filled with cutout jazz outs dirt cheap. I would try to make the rounds of all these shops each week and my collection grew and grew. Over 4 or 5 years my taste widened and I was listening entirely to Hard Bop, Bebop, & West Coast Jazz. It took another few years before I began to appreciate the Swing Era jazz, and even go further back to Traditional Jazz .

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13 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

It took another few years before I began to appreciate the Swing Era jazz, and even go further back to Traditional Jazz .

I dare say we'd ALL say that was true of ourselves. We can easily get what's around in the contemporary world, but looking back takes some effort in getting information and then ordering records that probably won't be in the local shops. Going back to swing was about as hard for me as going back to forties R&B,

MG

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I actually had a little taste - a little taste - for Swing/Big Band, because that was what my folks played in the house that I liked. Frankie Carle records, not so much. Glenn Miller records, yes, I liked that well enough. Louis Armstrong from the Glenn Miller Story OST, like that a LOT. Plus, my dad would make it a point to come into the room whenever sullivan had a Big Band on, so that reinforced for me that, ok, this is not as bad as all that, really, it isn't.

That was the only instrumental pop that I had any real exposure to until Herb Alpert/TJB, and I did not really like that so much, not in the middle of all those records that were BOOF-ing out of the radio. I have come to appreciate it, but still do not really LIKE it.

Getting into the OG New Orleans stuff, the ones that had banjos/tubas/etc. that took a while. But then Baby Dodds, once you hear Baby Dodds, you can't unhear him, nor do you want to!

But "big bands", yeah, I had an uncle who was a stone big band freak who got ALL kinds of excited the first time the words "Stan Kenton" and "Woody Herman" came out of my mouth..out came the 78s and that was that. I got reinforcement along those lines, even if playing a Don Ellis record for him didn't go over so well. But, you know, when you're looking for support and knowledge, you don't put all your eggs in one basket, right? You take what you can use from where it's there, and what's not there, you look for someplace else.

I can honestly say I've never been into any kind of music for which I couldn't find people to share some knowledge... eventually. I can also say that that was much less true in pre-intenet days. But..all you have to do is just start talking and see who bites on the subject, you really can never tell. Like, I met an old guy who did wheel alignments over in Longview, and come to find out that he played lead trumpet for Jan Garber back in the day, but that was just a gig for him, what he really loved was jazz and who he REALLY loved was Johnny Hodges, and oh, if you ever see that album he did with Lawrence Welk, it's ok, but really, go for the stuff with Wild Bill Davis. This guys telling me this while in a grease-covered jump-suit with fingernails that you couldn't get clean with a sandblaster. And OH - keep away from that one with the Petula Clark song on it, it's commercial rubbish.

So, what was it that somebody told an esteemed member here once upon a time..."talk to people".

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