David Ayers

Women in jazz/improv

95 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

I wonder why the very idea of this thread arouses objections?

Well, because this is not a distinctive factor that has any effect on the music - and, hopefully, on a possibility to develop a "career" as a musician (nowadays, at least). Because many female musicians would strongly object to being referred to as "female musicians". Because there is no "female jazz". I imagine if you ask Joëlle Léandre about plying female jazz you'd get smacked on your head with a double bass. To quote from Shayna Dulberger's interview that Clifford linked to above: "I don’t play because I am female and my music is not about being female".  

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Here’s what Léandre has actually said

 

I was looking to create new music, my music, in my century, plus I am a woman, not a man. I had to find my music, my feeling, my sounds. I don’t want to play like a man. Men have examples to look up to, not only in music, but as a woman, we don’t really have big figures on podiums. The only figures in front of me were men. I had to find myself, as a woman, in a creative way. All the world is built by men, almost everything. Women have to do somethings by themselves.”

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14 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

Here’s what Léandre has actually said

 

I was looking to create new music, my music, in my century, plus I am a woman, not a man. I had to find my music, my feeling, my sounds. I don’t want to play like a man. Men have examples to look up to, not only in music, but as a woman, we don’t really have big figures on podiums. The only figures in front of me were men. I had to find myself, as a woman, in a creative way. All the world is built by men, almost everything. Women have to do somethings by themselves.”

Touché!

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26 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

Here’s what Léandre has actually said

 

I was looking to create new music, my music, in my century, plus I am a woman, not a man. I had to find my music, my feeling, my sounds. I don’t want to play like a man. Men have examples to look up to, not only in music, but as a woman, we don’t really have big figures on podiums. The only figures in front of me were men. I had to find myself, as a woman, in a creative way. All the world is built by men, almost everything. Women have to do somethings by themselves.”

Yeah, I know this interview. She was talking specifically about when she started back in early 80's, forty years ago.   

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43 minutes ago, Д.Д. said:

Yeah, I know this interview. She was talking specifically about when she started back in early 80's, forty years ago.   

I see. So where does she express the views which you attribute to her? 

Why stifle this topic? There are currently active record labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women. The most significant exception is Intakt. I wonder what they might make of this discussion? 

I'm not even asking people to embrace feminism and feminist cultural theory (though I think they should), I just asked which women in jazz people find interesting - whether currently active or from forty years ago - or both.

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44 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

I see. So where does she express the views which you attribute to her? 

Why stifle this topic? There are currently active record labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women. The most significant exception is Intakt. I wonder what they might make of this discussion? 

I'm not even asking people to embrace feminism and feminist cultural theory (though I think they should), I just asked which women in jazz people find interesting - whether currently active or from forty years ago - or both.

I agree with you but I think you're setting the bar too low at "labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women" as I can think of several that do just off the top of my head - Leo, Rogue Art, Relative Pitch, Clean Feed, ECM. I agree about Intakt.

I think a more realistic expectation would be to ask which labels have a significant representation of women as leaders in their catalogue - "significant", I'll leave to others to debate. Somewhere near 50/50 would be nice as an aspiration, wouldn't it? And no, I'm not suggesting quotas.

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Tiring discussion. From my point of view, if you want to get suggestions on good jazz played by women, stay in. Otherwise you can easily skip this thread. Not particularly addressed to the last poster, btw. 

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5 hours ago, mjazzg said:

I agree with you but I think you're setting the bar too low at "labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women" as I can think of several that do just off the top of my head - Leo, Rogue Art, Relative Pitch, Clean Feed, ECM. I agree about Intakt.

I think a more realistic expectation would be to ask which labels have a significant representation of women as leaders in their catalogue - "significant", I'll leave to others to debate. Somewhere near 50/50 would be nice as an aspiration, wouldn't it? And no, I'm not suggesting quotas.

Yes some labels have moved on this. By opportunities I was thinking leader or duets.These UK researchers produce some depressing analysis and statistics but suggest that the largely older male audience for jazz can influence the culture with their concert attendance and purchases - which is what I’m going to try. See how long I last! 

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8 hours ago, David Ayers said:

I see. So where does she express the views which you attribute to her? 

Why stifle this topic? There are currently active record labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women. The most significant exception is Intakt. I wonder what they might make of this discussion? 

I'm not even asking people to embrace feminism and feminist cultural theory (though I think they should), I just asked which women in jazz people find interesting - whether currently active or from forty years ago - or both.

Add Relative Pitch. Maybe almost as many woman as men! So many creative forces!!

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20 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

Add Relative Pitch. Maybe almost as many woman as men! So many creative forces!!

It's in my list above, stands out for the number of female artists represented I think

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I would add Barbara Dennerlein and Sharel Cassity.

Many great players have come forth from Sherrie Maricle's Diva Jazz Orchestra: Ingrid Jensen and Claire Daly, among many others.

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I’m going to add Silke Eberhard. Unfailingly interesting, immersed in classic modernists (especially Dolphy) but very much her own voice. She’s been mentioned on the board a couple of times but I’d have thought she’d have a wide appeal here in terms of people’s tastes. 

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20 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

I’m going to add Silke Eberhard. Unfailingly interesting, immersed in classic modernists (especially Dolphy) but very much her own voice. She’s been mentioned on the board a couple of times but I’d have thought she’d have a wide appeal here in terms of people’s tastes. 

Definitely. I second that recommendation.

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"Silke" is about the coolest name ever. Is it pronounced "Silky"?

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6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

"Silke" is about the coolest name ever. Is it pronounced "Silky"?

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEV_en&q=wie+spricht+man+silke+aus&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRozi3w8sc9YSm9SWtOXmPU4OINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLkYglJLcoV4pRi52ItzszJTrViUWJKSeVZxCpZnpmqUFxQlJmcUaKQm5inAJZWSCwtBgB8sYafWAAAAA&pron_lang=de&pron_country=ES&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig_9G0stnzAhUIhlwKHfiADJgQ9tEEegQIAxAM&biw=1920&bih=880&dpr=1&safe=active&ssui=on

Silke is a Germanic female given name originally derived from Latin. There are two separate meanings: Silke is a Frisian diminutive form of Cecilia, from the Roman family name Caecilius. Silke is also a German diminutive form of Celia, meaning "heavenly", from the Latin "caelum" meaning "heaven".

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40 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Definitely. I second that recommendation.

:tup:wub:

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33 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

:tup:wub:

OK all this love, so which albums?

I remember listening to a Dolphy album years ago which didn't grab me then by Potsa Lotsa or similar

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1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

OK all this love, so which albums?

I remember listening to a Dolphy album years ago which didn't grab me then by Potsa Lotsa or similar

There are four terrific trio albums - two most recent on Intakt, two earlier on Jazzwerkstatt. 

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17 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

There are four terrific trio albums - two most recent on Intakt, two earlier on Jazzwerkstatt. 

There's also one on Leo - Mingus, Mingus, Mingus

She's recorded with some good piano players too - Dave Burrell, Ulrich Gumpert.

17 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

 

Edited by jlhoots

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Thank you both. I'd spotted the trio albums as possibles so will duly investigate

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