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Dan Gould

MLB 2021 Hot Stove League

94 posts in this topic

15 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Dan, I read some years back (no skin off my nose if you don't believe this) that from the beginning Judge Landis always sided with the owners.  His reputation as a stern taskmaster came solely from how he dealt with players, never the owners.

 

 


Well, GA, be that as it may, the fact is that Landis insisted on the "best interests of the game" clause which allowed future commissioners to take actions that individual owners (and the owners collectively) didn't much appreciate.

As for the lockout, I see it as wrong not because they are big-footing the players but because escalation makes no sense when you are on the way toward a work stoppage. In other words, let the players go on strike at the start of Spring Training, which is where this was headed, because they have been feeling mistreated (and I don't deny their reasons for being so even though I think some of their proposals are ludicrous).

 

14 hours ago, Brad said:

I’m generally with David on this one. I think the Union should have a say; they are the sport. I believe that in other countries the unions have a seat on the Board of Directors. 

Kind of apples and oranges don't you think Brad? Are there board of directors for sports leagues in other countries, or are you comparing it to corporate management in other countries? Because David's proposal was for a player from every team having a vote for commissioner - a very long way from a single vote on a board.

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Gil Hodges, Buck O'Neil, Jim Kaat, Tony Oliva, Minnie Minoso and someone from the 19th century reach the Hall:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/sports/baseball/buck-oneil-gil-hodges-hall-of-fame.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20211206&instance_id=47090&nl=the-morning&regi_id=68486788&segment_id=76211&te=1&user_id=97b4d9b18a0aa595e5cd5740f64bf5db

 

I think some of these are emblematic of "if you let Harold Baines in they might as well go too", though I don't think the same personal favoritism explains it, just the general watering-down of standards.  Baines was never the "don't let this guy beat us" in anyone's lineup, and if I am wrong about that evaluation, he wasn't that guy for more than 2-3 seasons at most. That's no peak.

Kinda the same with Jim Kaat, he was a number one pitcher for a stretch but not that long of a time. I used to think he belonged but now that he is in, I am not so sure.

I bet Kaat gives a good speech though, and I hope they get the writer of the Buck O'Neil book to speak on Buck's behalf.

Edited by Dan Gould

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Minnie Minoso!

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OMG:

I decided to google Harold Baines Stats and discovered that Google has memory-holed that the Guardians were ever the Indians. I don't care where you came down on the necessity of renaming that franchise, this is BS with a capital B.

Screenshot 2021-12-06 090240.jpg

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If you go to individual websites it will still show the Indians name, such as baseball-reference.com

These sort of things don’t perturb me. I guess the Indians have been cancelled :g

Edited by Brad

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7 minutes ago, Brad said:

 I guess the Indians have been cancelled 

In keeping with American historical tradition, no doubt.

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Briefly met Mr. Minoso and had him autograph a baseball at Jacobs Field. Sadly, type of pen/ink (Sharpie?) or baseball not the best. May take some time for me to acquire some guardian merch.

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

In keeping with American historical tradition, no doubt.

No doubt. 

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I was a fan of Jim Kaat. 

I believe that he should have been elected because he won the Golden Glove sixteen years in a row!

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Holy shit! I just got done watching Jerry Grote's wife play Password with Skitch Henderson and Arlene Francis on Buzzr. She played very well, but never got a Lightening Round. Came very close both times, though.

The closed Captioning has her last name as "Groti", but then they asked her what her husband did, and she said he's a catcher for the New York Mets. So, that left just one person playing the game that I knew absolutely nothing about, and he won both rounds.

Life is crazy, right?

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52 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Holy shit! I just got done watching Jerry Grote's wife play Password with Skitch Henderson and Arlene Francis on Buzzr. She played very well, but never got a Lightening Round. Came very close both times, though.

The closed Captioning has her last name as "Groti", but then they asked her what her husband did, and she said he's a catcher for the New York Mets. So, that left just one person playing the game that I knew absolutely nothing about, and he won both rounds.

Life is crazy, right?

Being in the NY metropolitan area back then, I remember Jerry Grote.  Now I will go back to forgetting him.

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His wife was from San Antonio! Transcontinental! :g

There is a hidden history of America to be found within the Goodson-Todman archives.

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So I was at Mom's apartment in her new assisted living facility over the weekend, and we stumbled across a rebroadcast of a Cub-Brewer tilt from 2019. Since her favorite Cubbies were still on the team we decided to watch the game ... and I am absolutely staggered to see the "Key Moves" scroll and then confirm things now that I am back. Apparently in the run up to the owner lock out the Sox were busy and I missed it, and the damage was hardly described in the :

It just said the Sox had acquired Jackie Bradley Jr.  Turns out it was Hunter Renfroe to the Brewers for Jackie Bradley Jr and two prospects who have done nothing above Low A ball.  Jesus Christ, one of the best hitters they had, with an incredible arm in the outfield, for a guy they gladly waived goodbye to last year, and hit .160 in 134 games for the Brewers.  When I heard JBJ, I thought that maybe they were moving Kike Hernandez to 2B to improve the infield defense and thought, "OK". But now I see this and all I can do is to quote Bulldog Bob Briscoe:  "This SUCKS! This is total BS!!"

 

Oh, and a reunion with Rich Hill. Maybe league average starter until he gets hurt. BFD.

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Fire the commissioner, this clown has proven he isn’t a leader.

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8 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

Fire the commissioner, this clown has proven he isn’t a leader.

Ken (and anybody else), I don't pay attention.  What's the objection to him?

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He has done little to encourage an end to the lockout, not to mention his poor handling of the all star game, moving it without doing basic research.

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Fortunately the Guardians are not close to mattering, so I can safely focus on other things (like the young core playing for the Cleveland basketball team).

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Wondering why the COVID-19 Omikron situation - to last for the next 2 months at least - doesn't speed up matters reg the lockout .... as this is solely about money .... 

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10 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

He has done little to encourage an end to the lockout, not to mention his poor handling of the all star game, moving it without doing basic research.

Well, in any labor dispute, both sides hold out till the last minute.  Gamesmanship and all.

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So one extra inning, with the apparently now-standard runner at 2B to start, then a half-inning in which the home manager chooses to play offense or defense. Runner at 1B, if he scores, team on offense wins, if the defense posts a scoreless inning, they win.

Some thoughts:

1. How does this get entered in the record books if the score stays tied?

2. Too much advantage to the home team. Statistically the odds aren't that great a runner at 1B with no outs actually scores, and home manager not only chooses, but if he chooses defense and has done the standard bullpen approach - save your closer for the "save situation" when at home - I could see a lot of home team wins.

Keep it far away from the major leagues and ditch the manager choice. Coin flip decides.

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1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Keep it far away from the major leagues.

Yeah, this.

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I realize that MLB.com is basically the owner's mouthpiece until a new CBA is reached but even allowing for that and the fact that I am not seeking out alternative reporting,  I cannot say that the PA is impressing me with their desire to deal.  Last time they countered a proposal of $20 million for something or other by going from $105 mil to $100 mil?  That's not a serious bargaining tactic, IMO. Its kind of like the Old Man on Pawn Stars making a new offer lower than the old one, when a customer is trying to squeeze more out of him.

I also do not see how a proposal to eliminate revenue sharing helps competitiveness or the league.  What exactly is their rationale? 

Right now a delay in the season is more on the players than the owners, IMO.

(Also not a good look that the players refused arbitration. Not binding arbitration, mind you. Just plain old Federal-mediated arbitration.)

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On 2/11/2022 at 10:25 AM, Dan Gould said:

Last time they countered a proposal of $20 million for something or other by going from $105 mil to $100 mil?  That's not a serious bargaining tactic, IMO. Its kind of like the Old Man on Pawn Stars making a new offer lower than the old one, when a customer is trying to squeeze more out of him.

 

I will re-assert that the player's aren't negotiating in good faith or with any serious desire for an agreement.

That fund that they moved a measly $5 million closer to the owner's proposal before (my gross number was wrong, they wanted $110 and went to $105 on prior counter-proposal)? That was the proposed fund for pre-arb players to get a bonus.  And now their newest proposal isn't $100 mill or even still $105. Not even back to $110, but new ask is $115.

In addition, as MLB.com is reporting:

Prior to Thursday, the MLBPA had not moved from its November proposal on any of the core issues including minimum salaries, Super 2 eligibility, the competitive balance tax threshold, and the size of both a Draft lottery and an expanded postseason. Thursday marked a slight move in Super 2 eligibility, though one unlikely to move the sides toward a new agreement.

******************

Seriously: FUCK the PA when they've gone this late and don't want to negotiate seriously and  won't consider Federal arbitration.  

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During the last two COVID-19 impacted years people learned to go on without a lot of things they were used to in the past .... so why should this not also account for baseballl .... 

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