medjuck Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, felser said: Pharoah Sanders might also be an interesting trajectory for conjecture. I agree. I've seen Pharoah with McCoy Tyner at the Lobero and with his own group at a rock festival. Liked him both times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 On 11/15/2021 at 8:49 PM, colinmce said: John Coltrane Quintet John Coltrane, tenor sax; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums; Marion Brown, bells. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, February 27, 1967 90774 E Minor Impulse! lost 90775 Half Steps - John Coltrane Quartet John Coltrane, tenor sax; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, March 29, 1967 90784 Number Eight Impulse! lost 90785 Number Seven - 90786 Number Six - 90787 Number Five - 90788 Number Four - 90789 Number Two - John Coltrane Sextet Pharoah Sanders, alto sax; John Coltrane, tenor sax; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums; Algie DeWitt, bata drum. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, May 17, 1967 90790 None Other Impulse! lost 90791 Kaleidoscope (mistitled as Collidoscope) - Yes, those are the ones I was referring to. Are they presumed lost in the Universal fire? Could Ravi have copies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted November 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 11/15/2021 at 11:49 AM, colinmce said: John Coltrane Quintet John Coltrane, tenor sax; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums; Marion Brown, bells. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, February 27, 1967 90774 E Minor Impulse! lost 90775 Half Steps - John Coltrane Quartet John Coltrane, tenor sax; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, March 29, 1967 90784 Number Eight Impulse! lost 90785 Number Seven - 90786 Number Six - 90787 Number Five - 90788 Number Four - 90789 Number Two - John Coltrane Sextet Pharoah Sanders, alto sax; John Coltrane, tenor sax; Alice Coltrane, piano; Jimmy Garrison, bass; Rashied Ali, drums; Algie DeWitt, bata drum. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, May 17, 1967 90790 None Other Impulse! lost 90791 Kaleidoscope (mistitled as Collidoscope) - I emailed Michael Cuscuna about these very sessions, and he wrote back saying that they were indeed lost, one of the "greatest tragedies" (his words) in American music. But wouldn't it be something if dubs were made, and (somehow) Ravi had copies. Unlikely, but you never know. I always thought that John Coltrane's trajectory would not be dissimilar from Alice's. I think his spiritual sense would only have intensified, and as a result be reflected in the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) Given how careless MCA was with its masters, I would not be surprised if some of these Coltrane unreleased sessions were lost even before the fire. EDIT: I said ABC, but I meant MCA. Edited November 17, 2021 by Teasing the Korean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 I wonder what Impulse's trajectory would have been if Trane had lived and carried on. I would think they would have made it past 1978, which is when the lights went out at the label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 Maybe after more explorations in Free Jazz and more world music explorations with a lot of exotic instruments and maybe some electric, Trane would have returned at some point to a series of traditional acoustic quartet setting, maybe regathering Elvin and McCoy and after Garrisons´ death Reggie Workman or so on bass. Very good paid reunions for special occasions, maybe some guest appearences with Miles, especially on events like the 1991 gathering of old colleages in Paris....., and maybe some last album of moving ballads, before retirement due to age and loss of breath like Sonny Rollins, with tons of honour degrees and so on. Considering that Trane stopped drugs in the second half of the 50´s and being completly dedicated to music, he really would have deserved to live long like Sonny, who was in the same situation...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Gheorghe said: Maybe after more explorations in Free Jazz and more world music explorations with a lot of exotic instruments and maybe some electric, Trane would have returned at some point to a series of traditional acoustic quartet setting... Trying to imagine his CTI albums and maybe even his disco album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabshakeh Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said: Trying to imagine his CTI albums and maybe even his disco album. Perhaps he misses that period because of his self imposed retreat to a meditation centre for the first half of the 1970s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said: Perhaps he misses that period because of his self imposed retreat to a meditation centre for the first half of the 1970s? And then a failed large-group effort for MPS, followed by a return-to-hard-bop-roots comeback album on Criss Cross in 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 For sure Winton’s career would have been different if Trane still lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 Put me in the bucket of people who think that Coltrane would have to some extent followed trends in jazz that occurred after his death, as he did before his death. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have also influenced those same trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 17, 2021 Report Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) Has anyone ever confirmed that these unreleased Coltrane masters still existed just prior to the Universal fire? I ask because MCA was pretty ruthless about trashing tapes that they acquired from other labels. I know that in the 70s, when they acquired Decca, ABC, and others, they trashed multi-tracks, session reels, and mono album masters, and retained only stereo album masters. Edited November 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted November 18, 2021 Report Share Posted November 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said: Has anyone ever confirmed that these unreleased Coltrane masters still existed just prior to the Universal fire? I ask because MCA was pretty ruthless about trashing tapes then they acquired other labels. I know that in the 70s, when they acquired Decca, ABC, and others, they trashed multi-tracks and mono album masters, and retained only stereo album masters. I am not sure, but I recall hearing even before the Universal Fire that there was no known unreleased Coltrane left in the Impulse! vaults. Coltrane kept a lot of tapes at home, which has been the source of most subsequent releases of previously unreleased Impulse! material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 18, 2021 Report Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 minute ago, John L said: I am not sure, but I recall hearing even before the Universal Fire that there was no known unreleased Coltrane left in the Impulse! vaults. Coltrane kept a lot of tapes at home, which has been the source of most subsequent releases of previously unreleased Impulse! material. Yes, but these would have been 7.5 ips mono dubs, correct? Good enough to release, but not up to studio master tape quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 Heating up Thanksgiving leftovers and listening to side 1 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 So Ms. TTK and I finished Expressions during dinner. The long track "To Be" was uncharacteristically restrained, but very pleasant. The rest of it was very good, and what I generally expect from late-era Coltrane. All in all, the album provided very nice dinner music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 Yeah, I love Expression. Some of the first Coltrane I ever heard. regarding the session with Marion Brown above, I'd also read that Marion played alto on some of it. Too bad that the session is probably completely lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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