Third Stream Music Recommendations

[mjazzg]

11 hours ago, mhatta said:

I'm not sure how to define Third Stream (I know Schuller's "What Third Stream Is Not"), so I'll just say that it's kind of "classical" austere feeling. Andrew Hill's with strings session is good, and Eric Dolphy's Out There sounds like it too. How about Ken NcIntyre?  It's almost forgotten, but I like his output on United Artists.

 

This was new to me. Enjoyed it enough to buy a copy. Thanks for posting

[mhatta]

11 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

If Andrew Hill’s date with strings qualifies (and I think it does) — then the next-generation incarnation of that is Greg Osby’s Symbols of Light (2001) — with Jason Moran, plus a string quartet (that includes Reggie Workman’s daughter on cello).

Anyone else dig this album?

I really love it!  It's interesting that Osby included a tune written by Masabumi Kikuchi.

[mjazzg]

Another big fan of that Osby here

[jazzbo]

11 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

If Andrew Hill’s date with strings qualifies (and I think it does) — then the next-generation incarnation of that is Greg Osby’s Symbols of Light (2001) — with Jason Moran, plus a string quartet (that includes Reggie Workman’s daughter on cello).

The sole Moran-penned track from the album is track 2: “Replay In Kind”. I think(?) Osby may have overdubbed some additional lines on the main statements of the head, but I’m open to being corrected on that (if it’s all strings). I’m about positive Osby has done some similar overdubbing on a couple other of his BN albums from this era. Anyway, Moran’s “Replay In Kind” is a real corker…

And here’s the album’s opening track #1: “3 For Civility” — which is a little less exuberant…

 

Anyone else dig this album?

I love this album and have promoted it among jazz fans a bit. F'in' good.

Edited February 16, 2022 by jazzbo

[HutchFan]

I'm not familiar with that Osby record.  Given all the kudos, sounds like I need to give it a listen.    

 

 

12 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

A shitload of Roscoe Mitchell recordings in the last few years qualifies.

I think you could say the same about Wadada Leo Smith.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by HutchFan

[Larry Kart]

4 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I really like the MJQ LP.  Do you happen to know if the music as heard in the film was MJQ, or was it orchestrated?

Don't know. Never saw the film.

[Niko]

2 hours ago, mhatta said:

I really love it!  It's interesting that Osby included a tune written by Masabumi Kikuchi.

yes... then again, they collaborated quite a bit, there's a duo album, two Hino-Kikuchi Quintet albums with Osby and also some (two?) Paul Motian albums with both of them... still, it remains an unlikely pair (and I also don't like the duo album and the quintet album I know (Acoustic Boogie) too much even though I'm a big Kikuchi fan)

[RiRiIII]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:43 PM, kh1958 said:

Also, Music for Brass (Columbia).

My copy appears to be signed by Gunther Schuller, John Lewis, Joseph Wilder, Miles Davis, Dimitri Mitropoulos, and J.J. Johnson.

Could you please upload a photo of the autographs? Amazing, thinking Mitropoulos died in 1960 and never ever performed with these jazz men on stage (apart from Schuller who was a classical horn player too). Many thanks!

[Milestones]

If John Lewis is NOT a composer, then hardly anyone in jazz is one.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Milestones

[RiRiIII]

"Founded in the Autumn of 1962 by John Lewis (2), in collaboration with Gunther Schuller and Harold Farberman. The orchestra was made up of both jazz and classical musicians and gave its debut concert in December 1962, at the Philharmonic Hall in New York's Lincoln Center of the Performing Arts. The first recording session of the complete formation took place on January 12, 1963 (New York City). The orchestra was one of the exponents of the so-called "Third Stream" movement (a blending of jazz and classical music) and was dissolved in 1965. "

Their first Debut LP is very good. But there has been many years since I last listened to it.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, RiRiIII said:

"Founded in the Autumn of 1962 by John Lewis (2), in collaboration with Gunther Schuller and Harold Farberman. The orchestra was made up of both jazz and classical musicians and gave its debut concert in December 1962, at the Philharmonic Hall in New York's Lincoln Center of the Performing Arts. The first recording session of the complete formation took place on January 12, 1963 (New York City). The orchestra was one of the exponents of the so-called "Third Stream" movement (a blending of jazz and classical music) and was dissolved in 1965. "

Their first Debut LP is very good. But there has been many years since I last listened to it.

This one is easily overlooked because of its tangentiality....but shouldn't be!

[Rooster_Ties]

Question: Is this Third Stream?

Maybe Fourth Stream.

PS: This is the string quartet backing Ms. Lavette — and elsewhere on their website, I see they’ve collaborated with Reggie Workman, among others.

https://www.fireystringscompany.com/about

Edited February 17, 2022 by Rooster_Ties

[Teasing the Korean]

20 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Don't know. Never saw the film.

It's a Roger Vadim film.  Surprisingly, there are no reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.  I will have to seek it out.

 

[RiRiIII]

5 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

It's a Roger Vadim film.  Surprisingly, there are no reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.  I will have to seek it out.

 

 

the original french title was "Sait-on jamais"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050929/

[Big Beat Steve]

Is it just the US-centric debate of this topic so far or is there really such a schism between the US and European notions of what Third Stream was (with John Lewis and Gunther Schuller probably the only common ground) that no one has so far mentioned

- the "Play Bach" albums by Jacques Loussier

or

- "Jazz Goes Baroque" (2 vols.) by George Gruntz?

Third Stream was BIG over here in the late 50s/early 60s and so were the above records in that idiom.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Big Beat Steve

[Teasing the Korean]

13 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Is it just the US-centric debate of this topic so far or is there really such a schism between the US and European notions of what Third Stream was (with John Lewis and Gunther Schuller probably the only common ground) that no one has so far mentioned

- the "Play Bach" albums by Jacques Loussier

or

- "Jazz Goes Baroque" (2 vols.) by George Gruntz?

Third Stream was BIG over here in the late 50s/early 60s and so were the above records in that idiom.

Well, there is Third Stream and there is third stream.  I don't think that either the Lousier or Gruntz recordings would meet Gunther Schuller's definitions of "Third Stream," not that Gunther Schuller is the end-all be-all in discussions about jazz/"classical" hybrids.  I love those Gruntz and Loussier albums, by the way.

When I started this thread, I was initially interested in who else of note came from the Schuller/Lewis rat pack, and which of their works were worth seeking out, but I am not limiting myself to that period either.

[JSngry]

Try this one:

[Teasing the Korean]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:11 PM, mhatta said:

I'm not sure how to define Third Stream (I know Schuller's "What Third Stream Is Not"), so I'll just say that it's kind of "classical" austere feeling. Andrew Hill's with strings session is good, and Eric Dolphy's Out There sounds like it too. How about Ken NcIntyre?  It's almost forgotten, but I like his output on United Artists.

 

This is great.  Do you know if the whole album is like this?  Is most of his UA output in this bag?

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Try this one:

Just checked this out on YouTube.  Very cool.

Are there any adventurous orchestral arrangements of Monk out there?

[JSngry]

Probably?

I knew Steve Duke in college. He was the typical "NT guy", so I bought this as a laugh. Well, Imagine the TOTAL shock that I got to discover that this was some serious shit and that Steve Duke is a totally badass classical saxophonist who is a leading exponent of modern classical saxophone - and not at all averse to including jazz under that umbrella.

"Jazz purists" HATE this record, they think it's defacing or otherwise misunderstanding/misrepresenting Monk. I think it's them who are misunderstanding, because it's simply showing that Monk is not a music to be ghetto-ized, it's contents and implications are FAR more profound than just "jazz".

It's like, who owns truth? Only evil tries to do that and only suckers go along with it. Truth is there if you like it, and it's there if you don't like it. You don't bring truth to you, you go to it.

so whatever the first-gen Third Streamers though about it, their instinct that truth will not be denied (even if that's not exactly what they thought they were saying)….they were right about that.

 

[mhatta]

10 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

This is great.  Do you know if the whole album is like this?  Is most of his UA output in this bag?

 

Third Stream'ish With Strings music is "'Way 'Way Out" only.  Other tunes in "The Complete United Artists Sessions" are more straight ahead jazz, but still very good.