BLACK MYSTERY SCHOOL PIANISTS — and who else(!) is similar?

[clifford_thornton]

28 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Wonder how/where Shipp would place Tristano? 

he told me he's more into Sal Mosca. 

[Rooster_Ties]

29 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Wonder how/where Shipp would place Tristano? 

Yeah, I had that same exact thought earlier — because I do think Lennie approaches this ‘sound-world’ somewhat (sometimes), if certainly not always.

Did Lennie ever cite any influences (by name) that would lend some credence to the theory?

Of course, the thing this he’s often WAY more ‘metronomic’ than anybody truly in the “Mystery School” category.

[colinmce]

6 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Yeah, I had that same exact thought earlier — because I do think Lennie approaches this ‘sound-world’ somewhat (sometimes), if certainly not always.

Did Lennie ever cite any influences (by name) that would lend some credence to the theory?

Of course, the thing this he’s often WAY more ‘metronomic’ than anybody truly in the “Mystery School” category.

Think that last line answers your question, yeah. 

[clifford_thornton]

Burton Greene, Leo Cuypers, Fred Van Hove are also ____ mystery school players in my pantheon.

[AllenLowe]

you gotta have Elmo Hope.

And I would subtract Weston; I find his Africana speeches annoying.

[Rooster_Ties]

1 hour ago, colinmce said:

Think that last line answers your question, yeah. 

Yeah, that’s ultimately why I didn’t mention Lennie in my original post kicking off the discussion… but I definitely did think about it! 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Rooster_Ties

[HutchFan]

What about Anthony Davis? 

Some aspects of his playing -- but certainly not all -- strike me as having continuity with Andrew Hill's.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by HutchFan

[clifford_thornton]

Yes.

[Mark Stryker]

Worth mentioning that Shipp lays out some fairly concrete criteria for entrance into the club of Black Mystery School Pianists. It's not just a catchall for anyone who falls outside the mainstream or has a quirky/weird/unusual streak. Leaving aside the requirement of being black, which Shipp clarifies in his opening, he centers on these conditions:

 

1) an aspect of a secret code that places their language outside the mainstream

2) alternative touch to the Tatum-Peterson-Evans-Hancock ideals (I added the names Evans and Hancock for context) 

3) resists academic codification

4) iconoclastic --carves out a singular universe and and lives there a stubborn fuck-the-world attitude. 

5) tend to focus on their own compositions and/or body of work rather than deal with a common language or repertory

Of course, a lot of these are judgement calls and in many cases, he's identifying members by a preponderance of the evidence combined plus his own intuition. It's almost like being a Black Mystery School Pianist is a syndrome more than an absolutely strict adherence to every symptom/condition.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[Rooster_Ties]

BTW, although Ellington isn’t in the Mystery School — I think it’s entirely fitting that he was given some serious consideration (in the article).

I’ve always loved Duke’s piano trio records, most of which I’ve either owned or at least heard — and largely because they are just (slightly) off-kilter enough to always draw me in.  And I’m using that term “off-kilter” specifically, though I’m not sure I can precisely define it — but still, I think that term gets to the sort of sound and rhythmic world of the “mystery school” (at least to my ears, and way of thinking).

Some might argue it’s because Duke was lacking a bit of keyboard prowess and technique — and while perhaps that might(?) be true — I think it’s just a good (little) dash of the “mystery school” approach and aesthetic that I hear in Duke’s playing.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Rooster_Ties

[Dub Modal]

17 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

Worth mentioning that Shipp lays out some fairly concrete criteria for entrance into the club of Black Mystery School Pianists. It's not just a catchall for anyone who falls outside the mainstream or has a quirky/weird/unusual streak. Leaving aside the requirement of being black, which Shipp clarifies in his opening, he centers on these conditions:

 

1) an aspect of a secret code that places their language outside the mainstream

2) alternative touch to the Tatum-Peterson-Evans-Hancock ideals (I added the names Evans and Hancock for context) 

3) resists academic codification

4) iconoclastic --carves out a singular universe and and lives there a stubborn fuck-the-world attitude. 

5) tend to focus on their own compositions and/or body of work rather than deal with a common language or repertory

Of course, a lot of these are judgement calls and in many cases, he's identifying members by a preponderance of the evidence combined plus his own intuition. It's almost like being a Black Mystery School Pianist is a syndrome more than an absolutely strict adherence to every symptom/condition.

 

 

Thanks for listing this out. It seems this could be something one could study for a PhD

15 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

BTW, although Ellington isn’t in the Mystery School — I think it’s entirely fitting that he was given some serious consideration (in the article).

I’ve always loved Duke’s piano trio records, most of which I’ve either owned or at least heard — and largely because they are just (slightly) off-kilter enough to always draw me in.  And I’m using that term “off-kilter” specifically, though I’m not sure I can precisely define it — but still, I think that term gets to the sort of sound and rhythmic world of the “mystery school” (at least to my ears, and way of thinking).

Some might argue it’s because Duke was lacking a bit of keyboard prowess and technique — and while perhaps that might(?) be true — I think it’s just a good (little) dash of the “mystery school” approach and aesthetic that I hear in Duke’s playing.

agree on Duke’s trio records. Didn’t expect much when I started Piano in the Foreground but wow, what an excellent record. 

[JSngry]

I wanted to put Frank Hewitt in there, but listening back, p[robably not, a little too much bebop, albeit executed in a kinda "odd" way.

[relyles]

I wonder whether Jaki Byard at times would fit?