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Morgan/Shorter and Chambers/Kelly Vee Jays


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Yeah, I'd agree about the Wilson - my thinking has evolved, I used to find it a little samey sounding but over time you pick out little subtleties, as is so often the case with Wilson. Don't miss it, unlikely that much of this material will see individual session reissue by Universal.

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Damn you, DrJ.

I was not going purchase the Vee Jay sets from Mosaic. Not, not, not. To me, these look like three disk sets crammed onto six disks per set. Yes, I know the sets offer the 'complete' recordings. My thought was, with so many alternate takes, why pay for six disks? Upon reading your posts about the sets, reading the discography from the Mosaic web site, considering the sets may soon be OOP... errr, I placed my order for BOTH sets last night.

Fek! Fek you, DrJ. :P

I'd never read much about these sets. When I saw the words 'Vee Jay,' I wrote the sets off as being something I didn't want. Even more so when noting all the alternate takes.

On a second look, however, most all the players on the Vee Jay boxes are from the group of regular Blue Note players that I always enjoy. In addition, it's a Malcolm Addey remaster. Yeah, then I started desiring to have BOTH sets. To me, these are like having extra Blue Note sessions. But, with Malcolm Addey and Mosaic doing the dirty work rather than Van Gelder and Blue Note. I can think of no reason to not have more Blue Note style 1950s/1960s jazz. It will be interesting to see how the artists played differently (or the same) when recording for Vee Jay rather than Blue Note.

Maybe I could send you my electric bill or the coupon book for my mortgage payment? butwiggle.gif

Fek! Fek you, DrJ. B)

Edited by wesbed
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Here's a quote I found in regard the Kelly/Chambers Vee Jay box. I copied the text from the Mosaic web site.

Smooth 'n' Bluesy

Luckily, Jimmy Cobb is the drummer in most of the sessions, and there's not an excessive amount of Philly Joe Jones, who to my ears sounds like some sort of hamfisted Art Blakey (although I like Blakey).

Interesting. This is exactly what I've always enjoyed about Philly Joe. He has kind of a 'sloppy exactness' to his playing. Jazz is akin to real life. Real life can be sloppy. Philly Joe's style, for me, has always added a raw, real life, sloppy edge to the music. An edge that gives the music character and depth and takes nothing away.

Edited by wesbed
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Interesting. This is exactly what I've always enjoyed about Philly Joe. He has kind of a 'sloppy exactness' to his playing. Jazz is a akin to real life. Real life can be sloppy. Philly Joe's style, for me, has always added a raw, real life, sloppy edge to the music. An edge that gives the music character and depth and takes nothing away.

That's a great observation Wes, and right on in my view. I think Philly Joe was by far the best drummer Bill Evans ever had. He kicked Evans when and where he needed to be kicked and kept him from sinking into the dreamy doldrums.

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Gosh Yes, Philly Joe. . . well when he's ON he was AMAZING and so powerful! And sometimes you just had to wonder, and then he'd pull it off with amazement! (And then sometimes he just NEVER got it, like in a live performance of "Rosa Mae" I have with Mary Lou Williams).

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wesbed

Posted: Apr 8 2004, 12:11 PM

Damn you, DrJ.

I was not going purchase the Vee Jay sets from Mosaic. Not, not, not. To me, these look like three disk sets crammed onto six disks per set. Yes, I know the sets offer the 'complete' recordings. My thought was, with so many alternate takes, why pay for six disks? Upon reading your posts about the sets, reading the discography from the Mosaic web site, considering the sets may soon be OOP... errr, I placed my order for BOTH sets last night.

Fek! Fek you, DrJ...

...Maybe I could send you my electric bill or the coupon book for my mortgage payment?

Fek! Fek you, DrJ.

Well, I've been told worse by better'n you! ;)

Just kiddin' - I feel your pain, REALLY I do, but if I get any unexpected electric bills or mortgage payment coupon books, I will be returning them with an "addressee unknown" note! :P

On the bright side - this is a KILLER set, just keeps growing in my estimation. Money well spent, and hey, it'll be waiting for you when you finally are paroled from debter's prison! :lol:

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I received my Vee Jay sets today.

After a random listen-through to various tracks in each box, the tunes sound like Blue Note classics (even though they are recorded on Vee Jay). The playing is quite good (no matter some of the opinions posted on the Mosaic site, ignore the negative ones). Lee morgan sounds like 'Lee Morgan.' Wayne Shorter sounds like 'Wayne Shorter.' As usual, Kelly, Chambers, and Philly Joe are at their normal best.

The good playing and choice of songs are a 'given' with this group of players. The really surprising thing about both sets is the extremely good quality of the sound. The horns, the drums, the bass, and the piano all sound very accurate and real. The texture of the strings of the bass can be heard as Chambers drags his fingers across them. The detail of the sticks/brushes can be heard hitting the drums. All the instruments sound balanced together with nothing sounding too loud or out of place. I hear no buzzing, no distortion, no 'old' sounds, no 'electric' sounds. I believe the quality of the playing, in these sets, is every bit as good as the Blue Notes from the same time period. But, the SOUND... wow! Addey does it again.

Which makes me wonder... why doesn't Addey do more of the remastering work for Mosaic and Blue Note? Does Addey do only what he 'wants' to do? I found a picture of Addey on the internet once upon a time. I know he is no longer a young guy. Maybe he does all he desires to do and will do no more? Maybe he takes projects that interest him and that's it?

Maybe Addey does all he 'can' do? Maybe his work is so much in demand that he does all he is able to do? As a result, he is not always available for Cuscuna to utilize for Mosaic and Blue Note?

Maybe Addey's services, because they are so damned good, cost more than those of, say, Rudy Van Gelder or Ron McMaster? Maybe Addey charges a higher fee? I'm just supposing, here, I don't know. While I appreciate the work of all three gentlemen, Addey's work shines the brightest. Addey is ALWAYS good and doesn't have low points.

With all else remaining the same... price, time, and skill, I'd choose Malcolm Addey for ALL necessary remastering work. I wonder why his name is not listed on more Mosaic and Blue Note reissues?

The Vee Jays need to be heard to be believed. The sound is THAT good. Till I read DrJ's post (earlier in this thread), I was leery of purchasing the music for fear of a poor sound quality. I'm familiar with Blue Note's sound but not Vee Jay's. I'd think these were new recordings if I didn't know the truth.

Edited by wesbed
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I'm so amazed how good the Vee Jay Mosaic sets are. I've been listening to both sets this evening. The playing is at a very high level and the sound-quality is EXTREMELY good. The Wynton Kelly trio dates are just the shit. There is no other way to say it.

I'm listening to the Frank Strozier set as I type these words. He and Booker Little simply tear it up. TEAR THE SHIT UP! How else can I put it?

I can't say enough... these are EXCELLENT sets. I was going to let them go due to the large number of alternate takes. But, alternate takes or not, the regular takes are worth the price of admission.

ss1 recommends the Second Genesis side by Wayne Shorter. I think I'll listen to it next.

And, oohhhhh, Mr. Addey! The quality of the sound is some of the best I've heard. How did you do it?

Edited by wesbed
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The Vee Jay Mosaics should have been released as the first two titles in a new Malcolm Addey Series. Sold exclusively through Mosaic Records. I'm COMPLETELY AMAZED by the music on these sets. Both, peformance and sound quality.

I wonder if Addey would do an interview with b3-er for the Organissimo Forums? How did he make this music sound so fresh and vibrant?

Just incredible. Addey held a virtual remastering clinic on these sets.

Edited by wesbed
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Man Wes, I love your enthusiasm! If Mosaic ever needs a promo person, you're it! I was kind of waffling on the Chambers/Kelly set but no more. This sounds like my kind of jazz. It may not be my next purchase (I've been saving for months for the JJ and I'm just about there) but the C/K going to be mine before it goes out of print.

Hope you'll also fill us in on the Selects you received.

Thanks

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I'm so amazed how good the Vee Jay Mosaic sets are. I've been listening to both sets this evening. The playing is at a very high level and the sound-quality is EXTREMELY good. The Wynton Kelly trio dates are just the shit. There is no other way to say it...

I can't say enough... these are EXCELLENT sets. I was going to let them go due to the large number of alternate takes. But, alternate takes or not, the regular takes are worth the price of admission.

Fek! Fek you Mr. Wesbed!

;)

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Just incredible. Addey held a virtual remastering clinic on these sets.

I only have two Shorter VeeJay CDs from Blue Moon, and these sound very good too. I think it´s not only about Addey's remastering. These are simply better recordings than Rudy Van Gelders Blue Note sessions. There is no RVG-style distortion and lack of bass.

I currently have "Wayning Moments" and "Second Genesis", which are some of my favourite Wayne Shorter albums, but I have the other sessions in mp3 format (they were available on emusic.com some time ago). I find the "Introducing Wayne Shorter", "Young Lions", and "Expoobident" albums to be much less interesting though, so I will pass on that set. $96 for a sonic upgrade and a nice booklet is a bit steep. I'm sticking to my "Mosaic Select" :)

Edited by Claude
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I think it´s not only about Addey's remastering. These are simply better recordings than Rudy Van Gelders Blue Note sessions. There is no RVG-style distortion and lack of bass.

I wondered about this same thing. If the source of the original recordings, Vee Jay versus Blue Note, was simply better? Blue Note and Rudy Van Gelder have brought me so much pleasure over the years that I have a difficult time in thinking that Vee Jay may have done a better job with the original recording. At the same time, I accept that Blue Note may not have been 'the best.'

Maybe Claude is correct and the brilliant sound is not all due to Addey? Maybe Vee Jay captured the sound, originally, better than Blue Note and Rudy Van Gelder? Claude is correct when he writes that you don't hear, in the Vee Jay recordings, the RVG-style distortion, etcetera.

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The enthusiasm for the VeeJays (at least the Morgan/Shorter) is not misplaced. I received the Morgan/Shorter on Thursday (ordered late Tuesday). There is some great music here and the sound is quite good. Based on this set I'll more than likely pick up the Chambers/Kelly as well.

I had pretty much written these off in the past based on comments in other threads, reviews on the Mosaic site, and the alt. takes.

I am glad I reconsidered.

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I wish I could say more than I already have about how freaking great the Vee Jay Mosaics are. The sound is VERY good. The playing is equal to any example set by the Blue Note sound. Also, to me, the sets contain quite a good choice of songs. It hardly gets much better.

For anybody who is still wondering about getting these sets before they go OOP (potentially soon)... make sure you take DrJ's advice and don't let these collections slip by.

As I wrote in another thread... I thought the Duke Pearson Select was an example of the 'worst of Mosaic.' Regarding the Vee Jay sets, the opposite is true. The Vee Jays, to me, are an example of the 'best of Mosaic.'

Edited by wesbed
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