AndrewHill Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) This discussion made me decide to pull this one out again. Ornette's orchestral/string quartet excursions are something that I've always found intriguing in Ornette's catalogue. It seems that Ornette delved into orchestral music from roughly '62-'72, and then abandoned it altogether. I guess there was no room for strings in Prime Time. It'd be nice though, if ESP would put out Ornette's entire Town Hall concert. It seems that the newly reformed company is putting out a lot of unreleased material, so I suppose there's a chance we'll see an expanded edition. Concerning a US CS release, isn't the problem that Columbia/Legacy and CBS France have no ties with each other, and that's why we'll never see a US issue? I could be wrong though. Edited May 3, 2007 by Holy Ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 (edited) The Town Hall story is a mess, and Bernard has discussed it with me in a fair amount of detail. I understand that ESP only had one of the tapes, a copy from the master that they had repaired due to some audio problems. This became ESP-1006. Ornette later took the masters to BN but they were unreleased, and I'm not sure who has them now. The original Chappaqua Suite was issued both as a French and UK CBS title, with a reissue in the '70s in Japan on Sony, followed by the 1996 Columbia France reissue. The Ravi Shankar soundtrack was issued in the States, and I assume for foregin markets as well. I wonder if contractual issues were the reason the Ornette didn't come out here? Edited May 5, 2007 by clifford_thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 The Town Hall story is a mess, and Bernard has discussed it with me in a fair amount of detail. I understand that ESP only had one of the tapes, a copy from the master that they had repaired due to some audio problems. This became ESP-1006. Ornette later took the masters to BN but they were unreleased, and I'm not sure who has them now. That's how I understand it. BN planned two LP's which were never realized. Do you know why BN never released them? Was it about money? BN went as far as two give two catalogue numbers, but that's as far as it went. If Ornette has the masters, it just seems apparent that we'll never see a full reissue of this material, as we all know is the story with the Impulse! material. I'm sure I saw a thread on this, so I may be repeating information that's already been discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 The Town Hall story is a mess, and Bernard has discussed it with me in a fair amount of detail. I understand that ESP only had one of the tapes, a copy from the master that they had repaired due to some audio problems. This became ESP-1006. Ornette later took the masters to BN but they were unreleased, and I'm not sure who has them now. Wasn't this the other way around? BN first, then ESP. BN had the Town Hall material ready for release as BN 4210 in 1965. A single album. Ornette was having contacts with the label at the time and had BN record the December 1965 Golden Circle material (BN 4224 and 4225). Don't know the exact story of why BN did not issue BN 4210. ESP got the Town Hall material later. Stollman gave me a blank test pressing of ESP 1006 in the fall of 1967. The album cover was not ready yet. The ESP vinyl was released shortly after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 The way Bernard tells it, the Town Hall material was slated for ESP first and then Ornette took the tapes to Blue Note. But hey, I wasn't there in 1965. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 (edited) BTW, Brownie, yours wasn't the black cover with purple silkscreen? A few test pressings went out like that to reviewers, before the jacket was completed. Edited May 5, 2007 by clifford_thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 My copy had no cover. It had only the regular ESP innersleeve from that time that reproduced the National Observer article 'The Moody Men Who Play the New Music' plus a flyer that reproduced the New Yorker review by Whitney Balliett of the Town Hall concert. I have with me an ESP brochure that details all the albums up to 1967 which I picked up at the same time. It includes a reproduction of the original cover: As for Stollman, I think he did not remember the BN/ESP chronology right! But this was four decades ago, so who knows??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 My copy had no cover. It had only the regular ESP innersleeve from that time that reproduced the National Observer article 'The Moody Men Who Play the New Music' plus a flyer that reproduced the New Yorker review by Whitney Balliett of the Town Hall concert. I have with me an ESP brochure that details all the albums up to 1967 which I picked up at the same time. It includes a reproduction of the original cover: As for Stollman, I think he did not remember the BN/ESP chronology right! But this was four decades ago, so who knows??? That is the second cover. The first was an etching or drawing and the cover was laminated. The story as I understand it: Blue Note planned 2 lps. The ESP replicates the planned second volume (4211). The first volume was to include Story Teller, I Don't Love You, Children's Books and Architecture. Test pressings exist in the BN files, as do tape copies. When ESP issued their lp BN cancelled the releases and Ornette provided the Golden Circles as replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Thanks, Chuck. That's helpful. I have the laminated cover with the drawing, but a white ESPM-1006 disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gray Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Available again next week ... UK Amazon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now on only one disk. Wonder if they trimmed it?That company has a very small catalogue of collectables, including Grant Green's Iron City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 That company has a very small catalogue of collectables, including Grant Green's Iron City. Yes, a very strange mixture. Does anyone know anything about FiveFour? BTW I see they're releasing this next week: Is this it's first general release on CD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 I know nothing about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now on only one disk. Wonder if they trimmed it? No need, it seems - see post #44 above! (I've got the old edition of that geat Stadler album spread on two CDs and it's several minutes short of 80 minutes ... there were days when commercial discs couldn't hold more than 74 or later 78 or something minutes ... nowadays, they go up to 81 or 02 minutes - you can do that with CDRs, too, if you use the overburn function ... but I have no clue if that might diminish life expectancy ... I don't do much burning any more these days) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now on only one disk. Wonder if they trimmed it? No need, it seems - see post #44 above! (I've got the old edition of that geat Stadler album spread on two CDs and it's several minutes short of 80 minutes ... there were days when commercial discs couldn't hold more than 74 or later 78 or something minutes ... nowadays, they go up to 81 or 02 minutes - you can do that with CDRs, too, if you use the overburn function ... but I have no clue if that might diminish life expectancy ... I don't do much burning any more these days) Good! I've got the French CBS LP and I had no idea about timings. The LP is not in great sound so I might go for the CD. That said I never warmed much to the music though I love Ornette of this period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gray Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) FiveFour are part of Cherry Red records. Here are other albums they have released FiveFour Cherry Red also recently produced this Charles Lloyd reissue that didn't get talked about here as far as I know Charles Lloyd Edited September 14, 2012 by Steve Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 FiveFour are part of Cherry Red records. Here are other albums they have released FiveFour Cherry Red also recently produced this Charles Lloyd reissue that didn't get talked about here as far as I know Charles Lloyd Thanks for that, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now on only one disk. Wonder if they trimmed it? That company has a very small catalogue of collectables, including Grant Green's Iron City. The ubiquitous Iron City session sure gets around I remember trying to sus out the five-four Iron City when I first heard about it getting a release on this label. Back in the days before I rediscovered the joys of vinyl. Picked up the original Cobblestone vinyl a few years ago and felt like I was sitting in the room with the band Back to your scheduled programming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 FiveFour are part of Cherry Red records. Here are other albums they have released FiveFour Cherry Red also recently produced this Charles Lloyd reissue that didn't get talked about here as far as I know Charles Lloyd The CL is great - DISCOVERY is heads and shoulder above almost all of the Atlantic albums, including Forest Flower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0001RBFIS/ref=aw_d_iv_music?is=l&qid=1347699326&sr=8-19 Anyone heard this snippet of Ornette? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gray Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 For anyone toying with the idea of buying this ... I have the FiveFour release of Chappaqua now. The sound is fine, the notes state that it was licensed from Sony. Clocks in at 79.57, so a tight squeeze. It's good to hear it again, I haven't played LPs for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) I had the 2014 DSD remaster from Japan delivered this week. It's on 2 CDs and available until 12 March, 2015. Good sound, fair price. The liner notes (a fold out sheet) are in Japanese only. Did the original LP release have liner notes? Edit: It seem I have found the answer to my question in this JPG of the inside of the previous French Sony CD. Edited May 17, 2014 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Haven't spun this in probably 15 years. Yikes! Spinning it now. Always better than I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 On 9/14/2012 at 0:46 PM, robertoart said: Â The ubiquitous Iron City session sure gets around I remember trying to sus out the five-four Iron City when I first heard about it getting a release on this label. Back in the days before I rediscovered the joys of vinyl. Picked up the original Cobblestone vinyl a few years ago and felt like I was sitting in the room with the band Back to your scheduled programming. Sitting in the room with the band, eh? Do you remember who the organist was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 hours ago, bertrand said: Sitting in the room with the band, eh? Do you remember who the organist was  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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