27 replies to this topic

[sidewinder]

Woody Shaw - Blackstone Legacy (click here to buy)


Big Al has kindly tagged me to pick an AOTW over the Xmas period. Initial thoughts were to pick something on Blue Note by Bobby Hutcherson but as Bobby is on the current AOTW by Eric Dolphy, I'll revert to Plan B, which is something nice by WOODY SHAW.

Can't get enough Woody ! B)

The nomination of AOTW is one of Woody's lesser known sessions, recorded for Lester and John Koenig of Contemporary Records during Dec 1970. It captures Woody at that interesting time after his work with Horace Silver/Tyrone Washington/Andrew Hill etc. on Blue Note and before the achievements of the Muse and Columbia years. Definitely an echo of Miles' near-contemporary 'Bitches Brew' sessions in the group sound here too (Bennie Maupin and Lenny White are in the lineup).

The session should be readily available on CD through Fantasy. Look forward to some interesting discussions on this one !



Full lineup:

Woody Shaw - trumpet
Gary Bartz - alto/soprano saxes
Bennie Maupin - tenor sax/flute
George Cables - piano/elec piano
Ron Carter - bass
Clint Houston - bass
Lenny White - drums

NYC Dec 8-9 1970

[Rooster_Ties]

Much as I LOVE Woody Shaw, and especially his work with Tyrone Washington and Andrew Hill....

....for some reason, I have never been able to connect very deeply with "Blackstone Legacy". (Which is really weird, cuz on paper - it should be something that would be right up my alley.)

So, this should be an interesting AOTW. I'll be very curious to hear what others here think of it.

[sidewinder]

I thought this might get some mixed reactions...

[Free For All]

I'm a Woody-holic and I do love this recording. I've always liked George Cables' tune "Think On Me"- the first time I heard it was when it was recorded by the Woody Herman band, arranged by the late great Bill Stapleton (one of my favorite later-Woody arrangers) for the Grammy-winning Giant Steps. Stapes must have been a Shaw fan. Very catchy melody, one that you remember. Anyway.........
BSL preceded by a couple years the recordings Woody did with Blakey, most recently released as "Child's Dance" and "Mission Eternal". I love this under-appreciated period of Woody- the chops were on and the vibe was definitely Milesean. There's a raw and reckless energy to the group that really pulls you in.

Nice call, sidewinder! This could be an interesting discussion...........

Edited for lame spelling........

Edited by Free For All, 16 December 2003 - 02:22 AM.

[sidewinder]

Up for some AOW action !

[Alexander]

I'm a BIG Woody Shaw fan. Over the years, I've collected every disc of his that I could get my hands on. I haven't listened to this in a while, but my recollection is that it's very much of a piece with "Bitches Brew." I'll have to listen to it tomorrow and post my thoughts. I'm looking forward to it!

[Jazzdog]

This connects with me a lot more than BB does. I haven't listened to it in years but BB never really "got" me, like it has for so many others. Even though Miles is far more influential than Woody, Woody to me is a more complete trumpter. I've always been able to look past Miles' acheivements as being more rewarding than his actual playing. Too many peaks and valleys for me. Woody just sound ON here, as do all of the supporting cast. I dl'ed Blackstone Legacy from near the end of the emusic unlimited download days and I am happy that I did. Highly rewarding work from Woody Shaw!

[Big Al]

If I get any Christmas money or gift certificates, this one's at the top of my "TO GIT" list. I listened to clips today, and what I heard sounds pretty powerful!

[sidewinder]

Just starting to listen to this one in real depth again but the standout track for me which grabs the ear is 'A Deed For Dolphy', a tribute which I'm sure Eric would have been impressed with. Some of Shaw's finest playing of the album is on this track.

I had the opportunity to chat with John Koenig on one occasion some years ago and specifically asked him about this album. If my memory is right, it came about as a result of Koenig meeting Shaw during the Joe Henderson Lighthouse gig recorded by Milestone. Shaw was lacking a record deal at the time so this date and 'Song of Songs' were put together somewhat ad-hoc by Contemporary. John did mention that Shaw always tended to be 'well lubricated' in the studio and that a bit more rehearsal time would have been beneficial. Indeed, some of the arrangements on 'Blackstone' are a little bit on the ragged side. Doesn't harm the sponteneity of this session though.

[Clunky]

I am not sure about this session. I rarely play it as it seems pretty dense stuff with none of the light crackle that his CBS Mosaic sessions or his stuff later on Muse.

A product of its time I suspect but worthy of reinvestigation via AOW.
Will spin it again.

[bertrand]

Along with his other originals from this session, Woody copyrighted a tune called 'One For Butch' (or something like that). I wish I could get someone to play it. I also wish I knew who was handling his publishing/estate.

Bertrand.

[ralphie_boy]

I dig this session! Maupin is a monster on this one and George Cables puts down some of the best electric piano that I've ever heard. It is different than other Shaw sessions though - as someone else mentioned, very reminisent of Bitches Brew-era Miles.

[jazzbo]

You know, this may be the only session as a leader of his that I don't have and haven't heard. They edited a bit out for the cd release, and I've been wanting to find and hear a complete version!

[Noj]

I like the frantic pace of the title track, the bass and drums seem to build up this tension that the horns take clear to chaos, but in a good way.

The melody of "Think On Me" instantly grabs me, and that theme holds my interest throughout. Great stuff, my favorite track on the album.

The bass and drums are are at break neck speed on "Lost And Found." Some intense improvisations by Woody, and Cables' subtle electric keys are intriguing. To these ears it follows a similar theme as the title track, in that the overall effect is one of a building tension coupled with sounds probing for an unforeseen destination.

If any tension was leftover from the first three tracks, it melts before the soothing sounds of the intro to "New World," which then breaks into something funky beyond imagination. It has this funk meets heavy improv that reminds me of Freddie Hubbard's STRAIGHT LIFE.

"Boo-Ann's Grand" has a similar appeal as "Think On Me," in that the melody introduced at the beginning is instantly appealing to me. The delicate breaks that follow highlight more nice playing by Cables, and I enjoy the shifting pace.

"A Deed For Dolphy" is the most challenging track to listen to, and doesn't seem to settle into anything predictable. It has facets that I enjoy, but overall is my least favorite track on BLACKSTONE LEGACY. Then again, within the context of all the other songs it is a logical extension, if that makes sense.

[JSngry]

I've always dug this side quite a bit, but in all honesty, the comparisons to BITCHES BREW elude me. I mean, yeah, there's electricity, percussion, and more "groove" oriented material (at times) but that's about it as far as I can hear. Can those who hear s stronger connection help me hear it?

Other than that, what I've always dug about this side was its honest and organic "populist" vibe, a vibe very much of its time, and a vibe that I still very much dig. Unfortunately, "populist" soon became "popular" (DISCO! FUNK (that all too often wasn'r really funky at all)) (not w/Woody, though). Then the Suits moved in and deemed it ALL unholy, but geez, it was good while it lasted...

[JohnS]

I wasn't attracted to this when the double album first came out and I'd more or less overlooked it until I got the cd a a year or so ago. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't do very much for me. The tracks are overlong and not too much happens in places. Listening to this I'm reminded of Herbie Hancock's sextet in spots and I was surprised to see that this album predates Herbie's sextet recordings.

I think I'll stick to the Mosaic set.

[Rooster_Ties]

They edited a bit out for the cd release, and I've been wanting to find and hear a complete version!

Weren't the edits very tiny (less than 2 minutes total), or something like that?? Couple early fade-outs, and maybe a couple vamps that were trimmed a bit.

I never got the impression that this album was cut up badly by the editting to get it all on one CD. (But then again, I've never heard the LP's.)

[jazzbo]

I have yet to hear the lp or the cd version, but I did realize that they had to trim about two minutes from the total of both lps to fit it onto a cd. . . and that doesn't normally sound like something I'd want! So I guess I'll probably seek out the lp version one day soon. . . .

I sort of enjoy having at least one session of one of my favorites NOT acquired. . . I HATE to get to the end of the work of one of my favorites!

[Big Al]

Hey, here's another AOTW for ya:

I have yet to hear the lp or the cd version, but I did realize that they had to trim about two minutes from the total of both lps to fit it onto a cd. . . and that doesn't normally sound like something I'd want! So I guess I'll probably seek out the lp version one day soon. . . .

I thought about that after I recently got this CD. However, since I'm not at all familiar with this session, I guess what I don't know won't bother me. At least until I find the LP!

This album isn't blowing me away, which is a good thing. It's moreorless breezing me away. I can't even pinpoint it; it just seems to wash over me in waves of modal colors that change at a moment's notice. I was expecting "A Deed for Dolphy" to be more intense than it is, and I'm glad it isn't. I really dig the version of "Boo-Ann's Grand" on here, as well as "New World."

I think this is George Cables's finest hour (or eighty minutes!). His electric piano playing is flawless, his comping is spot-on, and his solos are otherworldly. I enjoy his performance on this album more than any other player of this era, including Herbie Hancock (a particular favorite of mine).

And Lenny White, my goodness!!! Every time I listen to this album, I keep wanting to think that's DeJohnette back there, but no, it's this kid named Lenny White.

Woody's sound is still as gorgeous as it was on his Blue Note output. This makes me want to seek out more Woody, but I don't know if anything else will top this. This is about as close to perfect as there is in this world!

[sidewinder]

Thanks for the reminder of this session - I'll add the 2LPs to today's playlist.

Lenny White - yep, it's this session and 'Passing Ships' by Andrew Hill that remind you just what a tallented jazz drummer he was/is. Before the 'Astral Pilots' etc. kicked in.

[Shawn]

I just recently picked this one up on emusic after being curious about it for years. It was worth the wait IMO, I've been spinning this one quite a bit. As mentioned above Maupin is amazing throughout and I really dig the stretched out modal grooves being thrown down on this one. I've always been a "drone" nut, so this type of stuff is right up my alley.

[dumpy mama]

buddy terry shat out a few albums you might enjoy if you like blackstone legacy (i don't personally like it that much). i like this buddy terry album, "pure dynamite" better. it was recently reissued on CD. it has eddie henderson and woody shaw and kenny barron and joanne brackeen and lenny white and billy hart and mtume and stanley clarke and maybe airto? in addition to terry. from 72? or 73. more of an acoustic sound (less e-piano). but same vibe, imo. and has guys from both the hancock group and from the blackstone legacy album. another terry has been reissued on CD also, this one a little earlier-71 or 72. with cecil bridgewater, stanley cowell, roland prince, mtume, buster williams, victor gaskin, mickey roker. this one is a little more composed and less rambling than pure dynamte (it is called "awareness"). just fyi...

[JSngry]

Ok, if you're talking Buddy terry, you gotta go for the Prestige Natural Soul. Woody Shaw, Larry Young, Eddie Gladden, Newark out the ass, kinda like Unity w/o any pretense of being a formal, well-rehearsed Blue Note date, if you know what I mean.

[JSngry]

And yeah, Pure Dynamite, that one's got a real late-60s, Miles feel to it. Terry was probably in over his head on this stuff, and it would in no way have been a sustainable direction for him, but for this one record, hey, it worked fine. I was more than pleasantly surprised at jsut how fine it did work out.

Awareness is ok, but...coulda/shoulda and all that.

Terry did one last Mainstream, Lean On Him, that was kind of a Gospel/Jazz/Pop/Etc?Whatever ate w/a larger-ish ensemble. If you're into "that kind of thing" (think an Atlantic-type date geared for R&B/Jazz airplay), then it's not bad either.

But Natural Soul, dawg, hey. That's all the Buddy Terry you need to know.

[dumpy mama]

i just bought a buddy terry prestige LP but it ain't that one (has harold mabern is all i remember).
that one sounds good. i hadn't heard it.
lean on him is eh. some good parts but i wouldn't pick it up and not much connection to the blackstone legacy sound!
i used to be down on awareness but it has grown on me.
but anyway, pure dynamite is the most similar to ths AOTW, imo.
he was probably over his head but the other musicians were certainly capable of carrying him!

[JSngry]

i just bought a buddy terry prestige LP but it ain't that one (has harold mabern is all i remember)....
he was probably over his head but the other musicians were certainly capable of carrying him!

Exactly!

Sounds like you got Electric Soul, which is ok, but kinda unformed. Seems that Terry might've started recording before his chops were fully developed.

Natural Soul, that's the one you don't want to sleep until you find. Not that it's "great" or anything like that, although it is pretty damn good for the most part. It's just got NEWARK VIBE out the ass, and in a really good way.

[bigtiny]

Along with his other originals from this session, Woody copyrighted a tune called 'One For Butch' (or something like that). I wish I could get someone to play it. I also wish I knew who was handling his publishing/estate.

Bertrand.

go to woodyshaw.com his son is running things and they sell charts on the site. Perhaps he would work out an arrangement with you to use the tune....]


bigtiny

[Tom 1960]

Just to bump this topic for the moment, I just received Blackstone Legacy in the mail yesterday and winding down on my first listen. I dig this one alot. Yeah, the Miles Bitches Brew vibe works with me. Agreed, the 2 tracks Think Of Me and Boo-Ann's Grind are much more restrained(mainstream)compared to the other works and that's cool by me. Woody's playing is just fantastic along with the other players. Yes, I'm really glad to have finally picked this one up. For those interested, Amazon Marketplace has new copies available for 5.98 and 5.99 from very reputable sellers.