It went for a `modest´(!) 405 dollars, and thus qualifies for the E Bay madness thread.

Maybe this has been said and I'm just preaching to the choir, but it was the dead that led me into the jazz world. I was fortunate enough to see them as early as 1967 and to follow them as they learned to become a single mind with 5-6-7 arms, always improvising, always protean, always moving the music forward. By hearing the brilliant interplay between, say, the classically trained but avant guarde influencedLesh and the Blugrass influenced Garcia, the jazz influence Kreutzman, precisionist Hart and the blues embellished McKernan--and the later keyboardists who helped redefine the band at each step-- I was able to open up my mind and understand Coltrane and his peers and then launch out on the likes of The Art Ensemble of Chicago. I think that the Dead allowed a lot of people to cross over into the jazz idiom. They took us from rock and roll into the stratosphere. They taught us to listen with our minds and our bodies.

Muisc is music, and well made music is art, and art is everything.

OD: Welcome! Nice first post!

Thank you--I just recently found the forum researching some roscoe mitchell stuff. As blessed as I was to see the Dead dozens of times, I also got to catch the Art Ensemble on dozens of occasions. What an approachable bunch of guys--well, the dead were too early on.

I haven't scanned the whole thread here, so if I'm repeating, sorry.

Check out the following

http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-...Grateful%20Dead

There are almost a thousand concerts on there for download--including the Avalon runs before and after that Fillmore run. Want '73? You got it 108 downloads. 77?
You got it--79 downloads. Have a favorite concert? It's probably there-50:50 from a soundboard. They took down the Fillmore run last year, signalling it's release. More of Europe '72 is off--expect a box set from there soon. The missing tunes on the Dick's Picks? Yep--they got 'em.

The new one, due out in November, is from the Philadelphia Spectrum in the fall of 1972. I was at that show with a few first timers. By evening's end, there were no nonbelievers in the entire arena. The Dark Star--Dew is priceless. Near the end of the long, spacy star, Garcia begins this little upbeat ditty that the band jumps in on--a series of riffs that sound as if they were planned--but you know they weren't. Then, the Star winds down and, BAM Lesh throws us into a sublime Morning Dew. The other hour or so is outstanding as well. Also--the Academy discs from 1972. That entire week was phenomonal, a warm up of blistering proportions to the Europe tour. And 4-13/14 70--oh, hell, pretty much all of them.
I'm just partial to 1968--72, before Jerry got fat and strung out.

Yes, that Archive is a great resource. I've downloaded all of 1975 and the studio items and then decided to put a check to my downloading. I'd rather buy the cd releases, and I have more than I can honestly listen to right now (not that that will stop me from getting more!)

I saw the Dead several times between 72 and 75. . . . Coincidentally that's my favorite period to collect! The material previous to that just doesn't hold my interest as much generally, but boy is there great music in there. I've never quite taken to any of the material after that with anyone on the keys but Keith. Not sure why.

Well, 1) Keith had a better improvisational background an 2) by 1978, Jerry Berry was pretty smacked out and the band was no longer functioning as a single mind. Brent also lacked the depth in his playing that could lead Garcia into the kind of space that made the Keith years--well, the semi-sober Keith years--so fine.

Yes, the psychedellic period is influenced by heavy bass and 90 mph playing--often staying close to the scales--but, well, you had to have been there.

In effect there are several Grateful Deads: The original quintet, add Hart, add Constanten, lose Constanten, lose Hart (notice both quintets are seminal bar bands), add Godcheaux, add Hart back, (must we mention Donna the banshee from hell?), lose Keith, add Mydland, lose Mydland, add Hornsby, add Welnick, lose Hornsby--each had its own flavor. Persoanally, I lost intertest around the time of the 1974 retirement. I guess you tend to favor what you experience directly over what you hear second hand. At least I do.

And, as much as I've heard everything on the great Fillmore Box set--I really look forward to having it in sharp, crisp, remixed form. I'm guessing a massive Europe '72 box set isn't far behind, Keith lovers!

Right. I'm less and less a Hart fan as time goes by and love Kreutzman, so that flavors my period of interest as well. I actually like Donna most of the time. . . . An acquired taste for sure.

I'm lucky enough to be in the pipeline for a Fillmore box and boy would I like a 1972 Europe box!

My humble suspicion, based in part on the deletions from the etree downloads, is that the Paris concerts will be released as some sort of set. Also removed is the legendary (though perhaps overrated) field trip show from August 1972. It's become very evident to the Dead organization that the Vault material is a great retirement fund. Like most of these situations, too much, too fast will kill the interest. But, then again, they are doing triple time with DP, the downloads, the Vault, the DVDS . . . . I'm not sure how many "Me and My Uncles" I need to hear (that's their most played song!). Sorry Bobby.

Mean time, I really do recommend the new Philly Dick's Picks wholeheartedly. Just turnoff the lights first, light some incense, put a rug under the door and . . . .
enjoy it.

I'd like it if your prediction came true! A Paris set would be great!

Anyone think we'll see the Fillmore set today? I'm sweating bullets becuase a week ago my credit card account got all snafu'd and it's supposed to be fixed, but I just know that the universe may conspire to make this a problem for me and my pre-ordered set! I think it's due to be released today. . . and anyone that ordered it with express shipping should receive it today. . . .

Status: IN PROGRESS

Mine too!

Been that way since Sunday.

I see that 9 of the Fillmore 10 disc sets have gone for $300 or more, with one closing at $710. One is currently at $455.

I am all about letting the market setting its own price, and the fairness of eBay and all [I have used it to my advantage in the past]. Something just seems a bit off about the whole thing. What would Jerry think?

Jerry's probably too pissed off about the wrangle over his guitars to think about it. . . .

I heard the 8-27-72 "Field Trip" for the first time the other day. Yes, it does seem overrated. The best of it is very good, though.

Today my perspective is being altered by 6/27/69, with Bobby on a Buck Owens trip.

I'm also "In Progress"

By the way, the bookending Avalon shows (Jan 24, 25 and 26--which is where the second half of Live/Dead came from--and April 4, 5,, 6) are still up on Etree, as are the shows from The Ark (April 21, 22, 23) and the second Fillmore West run (June 5, 6, 7, 8)--oh, hell, there are about 40 gigs listed, most of which are excellent both sonically and aesthetically. So, if you don't have the bucks for the Fillmore run that they are releasing, treat yourself to some freebies. You can even get Nov 7, the companion to Dick's Picks 16. Spend a little time here, and you won't really miss the box set.

I'm not a deadhead by any stretch, like the band, barely tolerate the fans,,,but I have been tempted by this 2CD thing from 69 I've seen that has, I think, some of the source materials for Live?Dead which is by far my favorite album of theirs. Any one know what I'm talking 'bout and care to comment?

It's actually 3 CDs, but you're right about its association with Live/Dead. I haven't heard it yet, but I have a friend who has and is very impressed with the sound quality. He has had the tapes/CDRs of the run for years and considers the new official release to be a step up over the fine sounding stuff that was circulating before.

Not that you have to buy it here, but here's the link for the title at CD Universe:

Fillmore West 1969

Quincy:

Thank you for your prompt & polite reply. I didn't mean to to sound like a troll but there's something about deadhead-ism as a social phenomina that keeps me away from the music, unfortunately.

Dana

I quite agree with the disdain many people have for the hordes of "deadheads," most of whom got into the band well after their prime. It became a scene for scene's sake and the venues just got larger and larger until the intimacy disappeared and the band appeared to play for pay. Half or more of them weren't even born when these cds were recorded. The last few years the band members admitted that they could hardly hear one another on stage anymore.

But when the Fillmore run was recorded, there were maybe 500 or so in attendence at a small venue. And the attitude was much different: they listened and dance instead of pretending to be interested or sharing the numbers of concerts they had attended. Although the 3-cd set does not have any of the LIVE/DEAD material on it, it is an amazing snapshot of the band at the peak of its youthful improvisational power (yes, I'm sure that someone will write that later periods were better). Just imagine catching the Coltrane Quartet at the Village Vanguard and then transferring them to Madison Square Garden. Would they sell the place out today? Maybe. Would it be initmate and could you simply relax and enjoy the powerful music? Nope. Would the quartet be as free and spontaneous? Probably not.

Buy the cds.

Oh no problem, and I understand.

I used to make do with American Beauty, Working Man's Dead and then later the Skull & Roses album and a tape of Europe '72. That was about all I needed. I never understood why someone would want to follow a band for weeks or months, even a band at its peak. Sooner or later surely one would want to hear something else, right?

I was horrified at how limited the listening experience was for some Deadheads. For a few it consisted of hundreds of live Dead tapes and some Dead side projects like Old & In The Way, Weir's Kingfish or Ace album, and then perhaps some album from an artist who appeared on the bill. In the '90s this meant having a Hornsby album in the collection. That type of single mindedness of a few (by no means all) fans kind of scared me away from pursuing massive amounts of live shows that happened later. In fact what led to being more enthusiastic about the Dead was talking with friends who had a wide range of musical interests who also happened to have Dead lying around. The Grateful Dead are probably the #1 "gateway" band for those who move from a previous mainly rock background into jazz.

Here's an oldy but a goody from the usenet. A bit hard to read but it's a hoot.

Dead Music Appreciation Flowchart

It is almost frightening to go to dead.net and check out the merchandising: Golf balls? Yep, my tape collection is bigger than yours. But I have a soundboard copy of (fill in the date) that Jerry personally sneezed on and all you have is a hissy copy of the first set. Best verion of "Me and My Uncle" (their most often played tune) of the year. The corporate Dead and the "heads" who follow(ed) mindlessly seems to all but erase the artistic value that the band once had.

Of course, I happen to have a personally autographed copy of a tape of Jerry smoking opiates backstage at the Omni in 1992. I'm listing it on Ebay tomorrow.

The Hendrix site has plenty to offer for the whole family too. Follow the links on thru as direct links might not work.

How 'bout an "Are You Experienced diaper cover" available in 3 different sizes. Light switch covers, pillows, go ahead and decorate your whole house in a Hendrix theme. Air fresheners & incense too. (Hmm, "Wild Blue Angel" or "Smash Hits" for the bathroom?) Write that check with an official Axis Bold As Love pod pen!

Saw the the 3 disc Fillmore set today at Circuit City. Looks like a real nice package with a big booklet. When is the release date of the big box again? (He said anxiously)

How 'bout an "Are You Experienced diaper cover"

Hmm--perhaps for my good friend above?

Having just finished ordering a GD bumper sticker, I thought I would copy the nice PM I got from orchi-douche, mr. original dead head (Dick L. never liked this guy):

I'm sorry--I didn't mean to offend you. Just expressing my opinion about how a "hippie" group became superstars and have placed their name on everthing from t-shirts to golf balls. I just find that a little sad.

As to your abusive language--what's the need for that? Yes, I am an original dead head. And, yes, I think they went downhill after the last blast of 77-78. Just my opinion--nothing rammed down your throat. If you like the dead of the eighties, good for you--I have no issue with you. But even the dead said that the parking lot scene was screwqing up the tours. I guess you must be someone with at least five hundred tapes in your possession. Quick--name five tunes from any one of them.


Sorry your penis is so small that you can no longer jack it off, little man.

I think the people looking at your post will see it for what it is: a juvenile ant by a hothead with nothing to say. Note that I didn't think it worth a public response.

I can't wait for your clever reply.

Orchidouche: take your ten posts and your worldly view and beat it.

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand . . . .

just enjoy the music

orchidoctor seems to have shouted C-NT in St Patricks cathedral! as my old friend Ted Jones would say.
Personanlly ,Amir having read his posts I cant see what you are uppset about, an opinion, as subjective as any other, and I dont see that the abuse you complain about arrives till you took the bait. I dont think competitions to see who can piss highest are very productive, and as for the size of his or anybody elses Dick....
( Oh, Dick.L didnt like the guy, so thats all right then.)

Amir(Dan, I think?) Do you know OD from somewhere else?? It seems that I'm missing part of your exchange w/ him. Also, how do you know how Latvala felt about him? Just curious.

I'm kind of missing the whole point of that exchange. I'd love to know it so that I don't tick anyone else off. Nope, never met Dick L.--wish I had. I doubt highly that he ever heard of me. What a great job, being paid to listen to your favorite music, archiving it for all concerned--saving some of it from oxidation--and getting to select shows for release. And what these guys have done to clean them up and energize the sound is astonishing. Remember that the last Dick's Pick were lost on a houseboat for almost 35 years! What I find interesting is that the band has allowed such a huge portion of it's music to be shared for free (what an amazing site Etree is) and can still come up with gems for release--or more pristine copies which most serious deadheads will buy. Even with this new box from the Fillmore West, the concerts were available for years, but in less than pristine quality with cuts in the tapes, and so on. Now it's nearly perfect (or will be--haven't received mine yet). I look forward to hearing it--and I look forward to subsequent nuggets from the Vaults. The newest DP from Philadelphia is a gem of a show. The Dark Star--Mornig Dew will steal your face.

And even though I feel that the golf ball thing is silly--it's like anything else. Nobody has to buy them. Oh--I do have deadhead sticker on my bumper. Have for years. And for whatever reason (I'll probably never know) I got Amir mad--let me apologize in public as I have in private.

Listening to Dick's Picks Vol.16. . . another Fillmore set warmup attempt!

Guess we may have another week or two to wait. . . I haven't seen a definitive date for release anywhere yet.

Just read a nice page about Jerry's guitars. . . . Man, those Wolf, Wolf 2, Tiger, Rosebud, Lightnin' Bolt, etc. are fantastic beautiful guitars, I'd love to strap one on for even a few minutes.

Also, from aural evidence, I really like Jerry's playing on the Travis Bean guitars. Those got a really nice sound from his touch!

speaking of DPs-..how is 31 as far as SQ? Is it one of those flat soundboards or nice and dynamic?

Hmmmm. . . haven't heard Vol. 31 yet myself! It's on my list to get.

The last four Fillmore sets on eBay have closed at $405+.

Have any of them even shipped yet?

I wish I had heard about the Fillmore set before it sold out!!

Well, I did splurge for express mail. . . haven't seen my set yet!

I don't want to bury this lead: I was rude, sorry to OD for ill-tempered response.

Here's the quote I take offense to:

"I quite agree with the disdain many people have for the hordes of "deadheads," most of whom got into the band well after their prime. It became a scene for scene's sake and the venues just got larger and larger until the intimacy disappeared and the band appeared to play for pay."

This is a condescension and prejudice, plain and simple. This reflects a proprietary or entitled attitude about the GD scene, which was always both a music and social scene. The venues got larger and the money got better for the band, good for them! And let's not get into arguments about the band's prime, many of us were very pleased about how the music's color evolved and matured post '78. Try set 2 from Dick's Picks 6... As for hordes, you are probably referencing the violence toward the end, but if you weren't around to distinguish the 99% true fans from the 1% of rioters post '93, from where does your misinformed point of view come?

As for Jerry puking over GD golf balls, I doubt it. Jerry and the entire band struggled and worked hard to enjoy upper middle class life, including traveling with their own chefs at times. I believe fans who love that band and their music begrudge them nothing. So they can't play for pay? I guess if the "fans" feel so entitled...

I was there A LOT from '77 to '95. The scene and the music: up/down, mostly splendid, peaked for me in 1990 at the Garden, still amazing shows seen/heard thru '93.

Sorry for the confusing reference to Dick L., all in jest. And the ugly words to OD. I am sorry for the hair trigger. Dan

Dan: I'm glad no one is mad any longer. I didn't mean to disparage the serious deadheads or to hold myself out as superior because I knew them when or to claim my favorite period should be anyone else's. They always had their moments--even when Jerry was on his "Persian" holidays. Some of those nights with Branford Marsalis, David Murray, Ornete Coleman--great stuff. And I liked the material from 89-90 and a fair amount with Bruce Hornsby. I was "spoiled" I suppose by being lucky enough to be born at the right time and to live in the right place (New York) to catch the band when they were young (1967) and to watch them mature. my problem--and it is mine--is that I prefer the intimacy that was provided by the smaller venues and I preferred the style of music from the earlier days. That's just me--that was the Dead I grew up with.

And yes, I went to see them at the Omni and the Fox in Atlanta (where I live now) and had a good time. Again--this is just my reaction--and remember, I'm not 18 and free as a bird, I'm 53--the large crowds tended to overwhelm the music--to me. Was everyone there having a great time? You bet. Was it a scene that still connected to the "hippie" roots and values? Yep. But was it also too big in a lot of ways--ways that often interfered with the music and the ambience? Did the party outshout the music? I felt so--to a degree. Would it have been great if they continued to play small gigs? Absolutely. Possible? Dream on.

Two things: Play 3,000 concerts, age--not completely gracefully, and see if you are still a young lion roaring to get out of his cage. That's hard to maintain. I think Jerry and the boys had every right to earn every dollar they could. The golf ball crack comes from the notion that no one in the band plays golf--I mean, there is no connection to the band or the music, and some of the stuff on Dead.net is just wierd if not silly. But to each his own, and I don't begrudge the dead for merchandising--that equipment, set up--the cost of touring and feeding all their faithfull employees was high.

In short, I admire them for their music--throughout their career--for their stamina and longevity, and for the fact that they can still sell 10,000 10 cd sets just like that. I admire their fans. And I fully support and respect your personal opinions and preferencess as to which "Dead" you like the most. And just because I saw them when you could talk to Jerry on the street after a late night gig doesn't make me better than anyone else. Just damn lucky to have been there (which is why I can wholeheartedly recommend the new Dick's Picks from Philly).

Keep on Truckin'. Bill

Thanks, guys. I feel better now.

I'd like to recommend 6-16-74 to any and all. Don't be put off by the iffy sound in the first set. This was one of the great jamming nights.

Been listening to 4/5/69 and 3/23/75.

69 is probably the first set ive heard with an acoustic guitar. Great stuff. And the 75 one is almost all instrumental. GREAT STUFF.

Gotta love the archive.org

Well I hope some kind soul will have an extra set to sell to me- either to make a little money or they decide that the set is not to their liking and will sell it to me.

One can only hope!!

I *have* to get someone to burn me some shows from archive.org!!

<insert picture of Homer drooling>

Rather than get upset at how the 1st 4 songs at Louisville have sound problems treat it as educational. There's a moment where all you can hear is Bob's guitar and Billy's drums as they constantly search for the right mix (or just flat out having problems.) It's fascinating (ok, maybe a bit frustrating ) to hear the different instruments & vocals in isolation.

Most of June '74 feels like floating in a warm ocean. Great place to be!

when they "retired" in 1974, they were at the top of their game. Every song was treated with care and enthusiasm, and the jams were as "jazzy" as they could be, as Keith had really asserted himself within the band. The changes when they returned in 1976 are very clear: more tunesmithing, less jamming (for a while). 1974 is that perfect midpoint between the rollicking bar band of 1971 and the smoooooth mellow band of 1977. Check out some of the Winterland tapes from early in the year--oh, hell, check them all out. Of course, you might want to fast forward through the seastones unless that sort of thing moves you (seemed like everyone went to the bathroom when Ned and Phil did their thing); sometimes the space that came out of there was pretty thrilling.

when they "retired" in 1974, they were at the top of their game. Every song was treated with care and enthusiasm, and the jams were as "jazzy" as they could be, as Keith had really asserted himself within the band. The changes when they returned in 1976 are very clear: more tunesmithing, less jamming (for a while). 1974 is that perfect midpoint between the rollicking bar band of 1971 and the smoooooth mellow band of 1977. Check out some of the Winterland tapes from early in the year--oh, hell, check them all out. Of course, you might want to fast forward through the seastones unless that sort of thing moves you (seemed like everyone went to the bathroom when Ned and Phil did their thing); sometimes the space that came out of there was pretty thrilling.

Another eBay update -- The last two Complete 1969 Fillmore boxes went for $610.00 and $735.10.

That is, how shall I say it, out of my price range.

That would be right in my sell range however. I dont care how good the music is.

So, anybody on the other side of the pond received their fillmore set yet?

Not yet. I was cleaning off my desk the other day and noticed a post-it note which said "GD Fillmore set 11/15". I must have jotted this down when I placed my order. I opted for the expedited shipping so I would be guaranteed having the set on the date of release. So apparently (keep your fingers crossed) 11/15 is the day.