Glad to see y'all mention my friend Jerry Hahn, alive and well in Wichita and still playing stuff that can spin your head around.

But on to my real query of the day:

My local used-disc dive has an inexpensive copy of the GD "Downhill From Here" DVD. Opinions on this one?

I'm in the "Velma is in way over her head" camp. Apply that as you see fit to Pigpen (which, you don't have to at all, it's just my humble self thinking this).

On the basis of Dick's Picks and other live stuff I have, personally I'm in the Velma camp over the Donna camp any day of the week.

As to latter day dead dvds--you won't get that much off the video element; Jerry hardly moved at all after 1974, and Phil's about the same. Musically, that depends on which "Dead" you like the best. The GD Movie is pretty interesting.

Hopefully they will release "Sunshine Daydream," the acid laced film of the infamous 8-27-72 Fieldtrip concert. Even though the film students were high as Owsley kites, you can see them actually move--and there is a close-up of Garcia nailing the "tiger." The video from the 1970 Canadian tour is kind of fun.

Velma in way over her head? You seriously underestimate the woman. Pops didn't!

Yeah. . . "Sunshine Daydream". . . I finally got to see that thanks to a kind gentleman. Those early film pieces of the Dead from "Acid Test" era are very cool!

Cheap & used is the best way to get it (that's how I got mine.)

Of the late '80s and beyond videos I think it's the best musically (haven't seen/heard the VFV II or Buffalo), but weirdly enough the video quality is kind of grainy. Just a poor transfer I guess. But the "Deal" is a scorcher. While that may not be the first song you look for in a Dead setlist as a highlight, it really is a ripping one thanks to Jerry. Jerry appears happy and dare I say he sorta moves a little too. No Townshend windmills or leaps, but he moves a few times.

Of course, when you are 100 lbs overweight and recovering from heroin abuse AND a chain smoker, you just don't boogie like an 18 year old. Fortunately, he had enough wind in him to stand up and play his geetar.
But pretty boy Bob--he sure can shake that thang.

Two things on my mind today:

1. Anybody know what's going on with the GDL site??

2. Big recommendation for Dick's Picks 36. I've never been a Morning Dew fan, but the Dark Star > Dew on this one makes me crumple.

any of you GD fans like agitation free? something about them reminds me of my favorite aspects of GD jams though it is more controlled and less explorative stuff. maybe more like the allman brothers but from germany. also no blues or c & w influences or vocals, which are all bonuses for me!
http://www.diregarden.com/god028.html
i enjoy this one a lot.

Even with a high speed connection the site can be slow. It takes at least 20 to 30 seconds after the lightning bolt fills up for the page to load in the 2 times I've visited. The response can be slow and weird when clicking things. It doesn't seem to respond to keyboard controls for scrolling.

The autumnal backdrop was somewhat unusual as like crows, Deadheads tend to prefer shiny and more colorful things.



That'll convert ya alright. Dick's Pick 11 & 14 both include shows with the unusual leadoff Dews. Terrific!

Quincy, can you get into the GDL site at all? I haven't been able to since Thursday. I've tried on three different machines.

Maybe some wires are crossed here - Spontooneous seems to be talking about GD Live, an independent site that hosts music files; Quincy seems to be talking about the official DeadNet site.

Spontoon, GD Live does seem to be having some problems; no one seems able to reach it over the past few days. Temporary, I hope.

Oh, sorry 'bout that. Gdogus is right, I thought you were talking about the official site as someone just yesterday asked me if I was having problems with that one. Trouble ahead, trouble behind!

I've read about GD Live problems on rec.music.gdead. No one has been able to get on for days (just as Gdogus says.) One or two doomsayers noted that archive.org acted the same way before soundboards were pulled. I'm not trying to feed any conspiracy, just passing on the posts of worried minds.

GDLive has been having trouble for a long time. The shns haven't been accessible, you can't contact them--basically, it seems like it's been pretty much abandoned in the wake of the archive anyway--last update was at least a year ago.

But don't forget, if you download Total Recorder, you can download and burn all of the streams. There will be a half second gap between files, but it's still a wealth of music. The official shows have been pulled altogether, but that makes simple sense.

Correct about updates, but I downloaded a shn set no prob from GDLive just last weekend...

[/quote]Correct about updates, but I downloaded a shn set no prob from GDLive just last weekend...
[/quote]


Nope--just tried again. I had bookmarked a few shows before I found Total Record. GDLive downladed slowly one tune at a time. Anyway, no bookmarked access or straight access. Not surprising as the site did not appear to be maintained. No new additions in a long time, and the mp3s had been down for at least a year. I thinl they saw themselves as being redundant to the archives.

Glad Jazzbo got those Prankster files!

But again, for 12 bucks you can beat the system. Stick it to the man. Show Bobby what fer. Or just bend the hazy rules and swipe that show you missed first time around. And you can download 8-27-72 from Nugs.

Meantime, buy DP 36. For thirty years, all I had was the poor audience tape I made. Hearing that spontaneous heavenly jam between Dark Star and Morning Dew after all these years in clear crisp soundboard quality blew me away. This show, btw, came a day after a show with the newly reinvigorated Miles Davis and the Weather Report lineup with Eric Gravatt and Miroslav Vitous. What a weekend!

Just to add my two cents: DP 36 is a great concert, and like everyone else, the Dark Stor / Morning Dew is worth the price alone; plus the sound is outstanding. It was mentioned earlier, but to have a complete set of Europe '72 would be sooooo cool. Right now I'm listening to Olympia Paris, '72 concert and it's very good.

Is Jerry playing a steel guitar on It Hurts Me Too, in the Paris concert?

Late edit: I'm stunned, a Pigpen vocal I actually like! Two Souls in Communion has an understated, sad quality to it.

I forget if it's on the DP 35, but you can stream Empty pages from Aug 71 at Gaelic Park on archive.
Now, if that don't make you weep, I'm sending you some onions.

Dang, going to have to get me the last few Dick's Picks early next year.

Yes, Doc Orc: thanks for the pointer to the Prankster/Acid Test material (and a big thanks to The Mule for burnin' 'em for me). I'm really glad to have those four discs!

All this Grateful Dead talk has me going back to the Golden Road and Beyond Description box sets. I've been spending a lot of time with the early discs (up to Workingman's Dead) of the former, and the first three of the latter (Blues for Allah is still their best studio record, to me at least)

Blus for Allah is certainly adventuresome. Help--Slipknot--Franklin's captures the deadelicacy of the band's group mind and, though written out in this instance, its ability to play some complex music in the studio.
The Music Never Stopped is a catchy Bobby tune that nailed the spirit of deadidity or deadinaciousness or deadocity (pick one) that was peaking at that time. But it's Crazy Fingers with it's sweet/sad lyrics and Jerry's perfectly soulful crooning that makes it work. The haiku lyrics also work well. Quite deadistacious in a deadipitous way.

BUT: Workingman's and American Beauty are simply dead on perfect, more so the latter release. Lesh's Box of Rain is still one of the great love songs in the American musical lexicon. And Friend of the Devil? Deadvistating. Candyman? Ripple? Brokedown Palace? Deadvistating.

So many people, including Garcia, have dismissed their studio work as lifeless and stiff--or at least as failing to catch the fire of the live shows. I disagree strongly. The original mix of Aoxomoxoa is a tour de force of acid drenched psycedelia (and thank God they left out the version of St. Stephen--the Eleen they recorded with Hunter on bagpipes!--though they could have included Clementine instead of What's Become of the Baby) Workingman's and American Beauty were rehearsed both on an off stage for months before they stepped foot in the studio. With Workingman's, the group entered the studio with a template tape of the tunes which they simply played over with love and care. American Beauty is so full of subtle nuances that you can play it a dozen times and just begin to unravel it's intricate complexities. There is a documentary in which Steven Barncard (the producer) isolates Jerry's vocal track on--I think--Ripple. Makes you weep. They both beat the crap out of Skullfuck or Europe '72, which were both hybrids of live material overdubbed in the studio. Steal Your Face? Or Steal Your Money? Wake of the Flood is also beautiful, crafted with care and a delight to listen to. Mars Hotel is a little weaker on material (except Scarlet Begonias and Unbroken Chain), but still brilliantly produced. I personally feel that after Mars Hotel the studio work starts to diminish in quality both in terms of material and effort.

What was my point? Oh, yeah. Just enjoy the music. It's all good. And I can' wait for the 25 disc box of Europe '72.

Good post Orchid, for me the last great Dead album was Skull Fuck, OK for Europe 72 ( I was there,so I always thought fondly of it as a souvenir), thourgt Wake had its moments, but really began to lose interest with Mars Hotel, excepting Lesh s 2 contributions I found it dreary in the extreme, they must have recorded that album with quality control off! I mean Loose Lucy? US Blues? In my opinion crap pure and simple. No, I no longer own a copy.
I am with you on Aoxomoxoa! I never get tired of Anthem either, and the recent 10 cd set is the motherlode for me!

So many folks underrate Skullfuck. I guess they don't like the return to the stripped down bar band that the Dead began as. The L.P. is filled with covers, and that seemed disappointing, but they were crisp and tight. Of course, now we have the Fillmore East box--unadulterated and fiesty. Those Fillmore tapes were among the first soundboards to make the rounds as early as 1972, and, off speed or hissy or chopped as they might be, they were the holy gail of the time--and extra precious to me as I had the good fortune to catch the whole run. And now we have them in 3-D. I could listen to a tape of nothing but the Hard to Handles from that era and be quite content.

I agree about Mars Hotel. It marked the beginning of the end of the truly great Garcia-Hunter tunes. Oh, but that Money Money is a classic!

U.S. Blues is a good throwaway but here's where i differ w/Doc-- you follow Hunter/Garcia to the end, or almost to the end, & Jerry never lost his sense of weird melody or structure... Hunter was Hunter & surely never at that late '60s/early '70s peak again but still capable of strong work AS EDITED & ARRANGED BY JERRY (this is key). performances could be-- were-- wildly variable but... now we can, i think, make a pretty strong case that after "go to heaven" & "run for the roses" (neither of which were so hot but they do have moments) almost-- not all-- their best songs were behind 'em but i'd say it was a slow-ish decline up '80 or so... ("black muddy river" was a good later one, also "standing on the moon.")

xxc
(still hates kingfish)

Hard to handle?

I listen to Mars Hotel as much as any studio album by the Dead, Workingman's is my fave. Generally, about half the cuts on all their records (yes incl Shakedown, GtH, and up thru Built) give adequate enjoyment to my live-jaded ears. And let's give Reflections some props, got me thru many a trippy post show drive. Comes A Time might be the BEST Dead song done in a studio.

I sure don't mean to imply that the well dried up all of a sudden in 1974! There are enough Garcia-Hunter tunes post Mars Hotel to make a great cd. Shakedown Street is a nice shuffle, Mission in the Rain, Reuben and Cherise, Crazy Fingers, Althea, yes (shoot me) Touch of Grey and of course Black Muddy River and Standing on the Moon all come quicky to mind--though the studio recordings don't always measure up to the song's potential. It's got to be hard to maintain the pace and quality that the young lions could crank out. And Jerry often said that he really didn't like to write in his later years. Hell, it's not like they had anything left to prove!

Althea! Don't know why but I love that song. . . must be the sort of slipperiness to it. Like the Weir items on that album too (Feel Like A Stranger, Lost Sailor, Saint Of Circumstance). . . and that about closes the studio efforts for ME. . . hardly listen to/have listened to the others after that.

I forgot Althea--shame on me! Hunter's last literary foray with it's refences to Hamlet and to Greek mythology. And such a sweet tune. I sort of like Lost Sailor----Saint of Circumstance, but Barlow ain't no Hunter("I'm gonna go for it, it's for sure"). Okay, someone will nail me for that comment, I'm quite sure. Go ahead, I dare you!

But Workingman's? American Beauty? Genuine American classics. I used to slip a few of Hunter's lyrics (and Dylan's) in when I taught Freshman Lit. They got a better reaction than, say, Shakespeare. I also head students who were deadheads and who brought me in tapes. Those were the days.

I replayed American Beauty/Reality again last night for the first time in a long while, a pretty near perfect ailbum, I still remember buying the subsequent albums and my heart sinking each time I realised that the best was behind them, a genuine case of diminishing returns. And of course they still had a lot of good music in front of them, but they would never aspire to such heights again.

Then again, they stopped enjoying the studio after a while. After American Beauty, they released 2 live sets.
Can you imagine what might have happened if they had gone back into Wally Heider's with the songs Garcia put on his first solo LP and the Weir songs from Ace?--Wait! Ace isn't half bad. Playing in the Band is incredible (outtakes?). And I do think that Wake of the Flood rivals American Beauty in places. It still has that country tinge--maybe a bit more etherial, and some of the songs are lyrically stronger. Remember that by 1973, Keith's "jazzy" influence was allowing the band to check out some new spaces.

I take your point Orchid but I would like to hear out takes from Rolling Thunder! In my opinion perhaps the SF bay scenes last real gasp. Not to mention the unreleased album that Barry Melton was working on at the barn at the same time!

Yep, back when making music in the studio (or at Mickey's) was an adventure. "Record more than you erase."

Hey: you guys have a great Xmas!

Since I am out of the country for the next week or so ,lets make it Happy New Ear!
Till later.
( I just finshed playing Rockin the Rhine from 72, whew!)

I've always lamented the "lost" Grateful Dead studio album that might have resulted in 1972 - following Skullfuck - with a judicious selection of tunes from Garcia's first solo album , Weir's Ace, and the new tunes they presented on Europe '72. Anyone wanna try a speculative game, naming the tunes and running order that might have resulted?

I'll take Ace just the way it is. Lovely album, nicely remastered new cd too. (Okay, I'd definitely substitute something for the cowboy tearjerker tune, but that's all I'd do).

That album has a great cover too. . . (though it's impact is dimished on cd).

Okay, now back to your regualrly scheduled non-Weir discussions.

By the way I recently read an interview with Garcia where he talks of Freddie King as a major influence.

I hadn't really heard that til I read it. . . interesting.

I'll say this much: it would have made a great transitional album between the acoustic twins and Wake of the Flood. I'd include Loser, Sugaree, and from Garica's LP, Greatest Story, Cassidy, Looks Like Rain, Black Throated Wind from Ace, and Jack Straw, Brown-Eyed Women, and Tennessee Jed from Europe '72. But I'd add a slice or two of the Pig: Empty Pages or The Stranger. That would make ten songs, a nice L.P. I'd open with Loser and end with Cassidy. Or, they could easily have put out another "twin" set--a Garcia--Ace L.P. and a Europe '72 derived L.P. With, yes, a Pig tune one each.

Now, if I got to run the whole world . . . . . . . . . . .

I'd go with a double studio LP...

SIDE A
1. Jack Straw (Europe '72)
2. Sugaree (Garcia)
3. Brown-Eyed Women (Europe '72)
4. Playin in the Band (Ace)

SIDE B
5. Greatest Story Ever Told (Ace)
6. Ramble On Rose (Europe '72)
7. Mr. Charlie (Europe '72)
8. Looks Like Rain (Ace)
9. Tennessee Jed (Europe '72)

SIDE C
10. One More Saturday Night (Ace)
11. He's Gone (Europe '72)
12. Black-Throated Wind (Ace)
13. Loser (Garcia)

SIDE D
14. Deal (Garcia)
15. Mexicali Blues (Ace)
16. Bird Song (Garcia)
17. The Wheel (Garcia)
18. Cassidy (Ace)

Someone sent this to me...



‘Twas the week 'fore Thanksgiving and all through the land,
People downloaded shows from their favorite band.

The files they flew off Archive.org with speed,
They had every Dead soundboard an addict could need.

From Cornell '77 to a jam with Grace Slick,
Don't forget Fillmore East '70-- that shit was sick.

All was happy for Deadheads in cyberspace,
Who would never again listen to garbage like Steal Your Face.

But all was not right in the Land of the Dead,
The revenue had turned from black into red.

The Dick's Picks they sat and collected dust,
Especially 35-- Man, that was a bust!

Just then the mean old grinch, who was named Bob Weir
Said, "Hey, what the fuck is happening here?"

"They're stealing my money-- my kid's college fund.
I've been checking my portfolio and feeling quite stunned.

"This cannot go on. The downloading must desist.
If I lose another cent, I'm gonna be pissed."

And with a wave of his hand (and his lawyer's phone call),
The free downloads stopped-- once and for all.

The Archive lost soundboards and audience tapes too,
And Deadheads seemed to think this decision, it blew.

The Deadheads were angry-- they made quite a fuss:
"Why would the Dead pull this shit over on us?"

"Let's boycott every CD and t-shirt and ticket.
If Bob Weir needs money, we'll tell him to stick it."

But then from the East there arose such a clatter,
Phil Lesh had arrived to see what was the matter.

Outraged he was by the Dead’s strange decision.
The policy, he said, needed revision.

In a wave of his hand, he released a free board tape
With a long ‘Caution’ jam that left many mouths agape.

And for Mickey Hart? You know he couldn’t be left out of the flap.
“Remember me,” he cried. “I do the ‘Fire on the Mountain’ rap.”

“I agree with Phil,” he said. “Although it makes me shiver
Because I can’t stand to be near that jerk and his liver.”

The foundation was shaking; they called Dennis McNally.
He traveled in quickly to stop the protest rally.

“On Pigpen, on T.C., on Godchaux, on Mydland,
On Hornsby, on Welnick—Wait. Who’s Welnick? He ain’t in the band,”

“The AUD tapes are back,” McNally had cried.
“There was a misunderstanding.” But it smelled like he lied.

The AUDs were returned to Archive.org,
But soundboards had been assimilated into the Borg.

“Bullshit!” Deadheads yelled. “Music should be free.”
“Tough shit,” Bob Weir said. “It’ll cost you a fee.”

“The boycott is on,” they said. “We’ll kick your butts.”
“Fine,” Weir retorted. “Suck on my nuts.”

When hopes were fading and the end was neigh,
Someone had pointed up into the sky.

Gently floating, upon a white cloud he sat.
A bushy beard spoke from a big mound of fat.

“Why the hell are you all acting so crazy?
This looks like a scene from a film by Scorsese.”

“Everyone here needs to shut up and chill.
And what happened to Weir? He looks over the hill!”

“Jerry,” Weir cried. “It’s so great to see ya.
But hey man. We’re broke-- just like North Korea.”

“I have an idea,” Jerry said. “From the days of old.
Go sell my toilet. People thought I shit gold.”

Then he picked up a guitar and played for the masses.
And smiles were found amongst those shaking asses.

The solo, it finished with ooohs and with ahhhs.
Then he concluded by saying, “Where’s my Häagen-Dazs?”

Where's Phil's board tape?

Phil's tape is at www.phillesh.net. Looks like there's three of them.

After a few days of listening to '72 and '73 shows, I'm just now hearing the vaunted Cornell '77 for the first time. I'm having the same "Is that all?" reaction that I had to Veneta. And why does Mickey Hart have to make "One More Saturday Night" stop swinging?

Yeah, I don't think Cornell is any "better" than many of the other late 76--early 78 stuff. It's vaunted due in part to the set list and the fact that they playing is consistently good throughout. But nothing mind boggling. The 1977 Dick's Picks seem preferable to me. And Mickey's return did not add to the band's playing; gone was the four handed interplay; Kreutzman's dynamics were weakened by the more simplistic patterns that Hart forced on him. Still--great stuff overall.

From the Gruhn Guitar website....

EH5924 Gibson Byrdland, 1966, EXC, pointed Florentine cutaway, sunburst finish, set up with Gretsch Bigsby, formerly owned by Jerry Garcia, provided with full documentation including a letter from Jerry, OHC......$100000


P.S. Can't link directly to the site. If you want to see this go to www.gruhn.com and click on "inventory" followed by "hollowbody electric"

I've always thought Veneta and Cornell were overrated and said so earlier in this folder. I would not place either show in my top 100 all time concerts. I think Cornell's mystique stems in part to its being one of the first Betty Boards that was available in pristine quality at a time when pristine quality soundboards were hard to find. Also, the Scarlet>Fire is an all timer and the Dancin' is letter perfect. However... I think the band loses its way during the St.Stephen>NFA>St. Stephen portion of the second set- pretty sloppy. There are better shows from this month(5/19 & 5/21) and this year(3/18, 10/29 and 11/4) - IMHO!

The cornell show earned its props from a decent audience tape; betty boards came much later. The show is a smoker, try that first set again if you don't think so. (Please do that today, tell us what you heard....) And a second set with an epic scarlet fire and a blow out dew, how bad do they have to play in between for it not to rank way up there? Better '76-'80s Dicks Picks than 5-8-77? I haven't heard one.

As I think back on those days, I would say the Binghamton, Buffalo, Cornell and Springfield shows from the spring, and the Rochester and Colgate shows from the fall were "legendary" well before the soundboards circulated. Now, these were mostly upstate nY shows where loud, outspoken DHs like myself roamed the earth, but now that everybody can hear these shows in great detail, they stand up pretty well! We have to go back and listen to the first sets, Binghamton and Buffalo were especially good along with Cornell I think.