If I said "Pigs and ponies!" here, would any Zappa fans get it?

Currently stuck on 6-10-73. No messing around in the first set; this time they mean it from the git-go.

Pigpen--the horse or the kid? Can't believe he was once petite.

On a separate idea--just tossing it out to all you Dead jammers. When the Dead--for me--were peaking (1972 or so), I was able to move out into the "Jazz" realm. Early Weather Report, Coltrane, Blue Note recordings, Alber Ayler--god the list is long--eventually moving into AACM territory. I moved back to the East Coast in 1976, by which time I was hardly listening to any rock 'n roll. Instead, I was steeped into the likes of Sun Ra and--most imporantly--The Art Ensemble of Chicago. I first saw them in Ann Arbor in 1972 (released on LP and CD). Then there was the week long residence at the Five Spot in NYC in 1975, the concerts at the Foxhole in Philly, back to New York, and so on. I liked the variety of music that they wove into their tapestry, and I really loved the way that they could move from one idea--or song--to another, much as I had heard the dead do. And they aften had special guests. Sometimes they would open a set with a particular tune, go into Space and improvise, then land in another tune. Or they might start by letting the air out and moving into a tune out of nowhere. Reese---Old Time Religion--Funky Aeco--El Toro--Odwalla. Similar to Dark Star--St. Stephen--Eleven--Lovelight. Or latter day Playing in the Band sets. No two nights were the same.

Point? Should there be a thread for this seminal group? There really isn't that much on the Board about them.

Thoughts?

Sure, create a corner/thread.

I myself. . . I've never gotten into the AEC. . .and I figure I've saved a few thousand dollars by not getting into them!

You don't know what you're missing/missed. Can't say enough about that group--the orogonal lineup post moye.

Well, I've tried for years and years. . . I know what I'm missing. . . just doesn't "get me". . . !

Well, there goes all that respect I had for you.

LOVE AACM and AEOC!!!

OD, I'm doing a project on the Foxhole. Do you have any remembrances that you'd lke to share??

Oh, yeah. What a great place for music. I'll have to dig deep into what few neurons I have left. I attended church there from 1976-78. When I lived in Philly, I hung out at 3rd Stree Jazz a lot as well--and I used to go up to Sunny Murray's house. What a time! Do you rember Russ Musto (was that his name?). Do you have a concert chronology? P.M. me.

sent.

Bill K!

"The Garcia family car"

Today's extra credit question: Who are the two guys in the lower part of the picture--on the bottom of the steps below Pigpen?

That was quick.
A box of orange sunshine shall be your reward.

Okay, who are the two women? And what was the name of scully's dog? (This one's for a cup of Jerry's ashes).

I'm pretty sure the brunette is Mountain Girl. Earth Goddess!

Nope--that's not Carolyn! She had short hair. Could it be Donna Jean??

Please p.m. me with an address for those ashes.

Cool. Thanks.

seriously do any of you people listen to agitation free?
i would think someone into the jamming aspect of the dead would enjoy agitation free.

this is a good one-http://www.diregarden.com/god071.html

but this one-http://www.diregarden.com/god028.html
is even better.
soaring jams and nice compositions.
i don't listen to any grateful dead anymore, but when i need a similar fix i go for this album.

Ok the Dead posted *another* download (Volume 10) that I would like to have yet I'm downloadably challenged........

Why can't they sell these as CDs like their 2004-05 tour and let me download the art?

I call them periodically to request this and all I hear is "that's a good idea- I'll pass it along."

Umm...what?

Google for the flac downloadable program--it's free. The flac part let's you download at the best quality. Be sure to download the flac frontend with it--this will translate the flac to wave which you can burn to cd or play on your computer. Otherwise, you should probably have an MP3 program on your computer. For most folks, MP3 is fine. For extra sensitive ears that want a prefectly precise digital copy, Flac is "lossless."

Anyway,once you have your program, just pay your bucks and hit download. The files will enter a folder which you can move to wherever you want (my documents, desktop, etc.) and you can take it from there.

Not to bring up a sore subject, but why don't they put up the Complete Fillmore set for download?

Mmmmmmmm, more '72. Nice. Did you all get DP36? It is fairly ASTOUNDING.

What he said. I heard the "Morning Dew" from this on the GD Hour one night while driving home, and I just about had to stop the car.

They really ought to put warning labels on some of these releases. I try to reserve shows like this for longer drives, preferably driving through someplace semi-desolate in the western US, lest I get to caught up in the "trip."

Maybe I got the dates wrong- The Dead's last 2 tours where you could buy CDs of individual show or shows and the Dead provided the artwork so you can compile your own CD.

Anyway- I have DPs 33 and 36 arriving any day now. Can't wait!

Orchiddoctor- thank you for the information on the flac program- I'll look for it.

Yeah, flac is wonderful, and it seems that most trading over the net is done in that format these days. And the software is free!!

I'm glad you guys are getting behind DP 36. Except for a December 1973 concert in Cleveland (with what may be the longest Dark Star played) , that's the last show I caught until 1980. I had seen this new ensemble with Keith gell in March at the Academy of Music run. Those shows were the launching pad for the Europe '72 tour. The boys were tearing it up night after night. Then Europe happened. I saw them in Columbus--Cincinatti--Cleveland in the fall of '72 and the music had become almost frighteningly powerful. Playing in the Band had become a vehicle for tight, adventuresome jamming, and the Dark Star/Other Ones seemed like endless journeys through all sorts of musical terrain. We couldn't wait for the spot lights to hit the mirror ball.

But that Philly show! We had good--not great--seats at the Spectrum--in the balcony. It didn't matter, since the sound was superlative. The first set was tight. Great versions of the songs played. Then the centerpiece of the second set; Dark Star---Morning Dew. The Star started off without that much fanfare, but pretty soon it was off to the races. Long, but lean, until that breathtaking passage at the end when Garcia just went for it and went into that beautiful jam for the last five minutes. Then, after tantalizing us with the final notes, bam--the intro note to Morning Dew.

Oh, we got our money's worth.

For a long while, all I had was the audience tape that I made on a very poor dictation style cassette machine, but that was all I needed to recapture that jam. Then in the early nineties, a poor, bassy soundboard emerged. Then DP36. Though still not the best recording in terms of balance, hearing it took me back 23 years in an instant. If you haven't listened to it, you oughta. Do yer head some good.

Yeah, I've been eying that one. . . when I have some money! Looks great.

DPs 36 and 33 just arrived!! Can't wait to listen to them!

Side note- I chose media mail- it shipped 1/30 and arrived today......the Dead store is in Crozet VA (west side of Charlotteville) and I'm in Powhatan, VA- about 60-70 miles....and it took 2 weeks.

No listening to 36 while driving now -- y'heah?

Great review Doctor!

I've heard this show now on the DP and I must say....your descriptive of it makes me want to sit back with a bottle of wine in the half-darkness and listen to the whole damn thing front to back!!!

Twice! As to all you drivers out there, I finally had the chance to hear it stem to stern last night while driving. Sometimes I think that's the best way to really hear something--no distraction from the kiddies, the phone, the real world. Oh, so what if there are semi's and blind drivers out there. Listening that closely, I realized exactly what Bobby was contributing at this point. He's right there alongside Jerry, matching him note for note with his twisted chords and contrapuntal twangs. Sometimes it seems as if Jerry is following him. I may be alone here in my opinion, but I still think that 1969 and 1972 were the two peak years for the band.

Okay, I did pull over a few times . . . .

Media Mail is nothing more than a guarantee of slow delivery. Unless it's the only option available, I avoid it like the plague. For sure the cost is less, but in the long run you'll be better served by electing another delivery option. Not only will that eliminate unnecessary delays but it will also alleviate any concerns one might otherwise have about a lost shipment.

With regard to DP 36...what they said. Great stuff.

Up over and out.

Bill, you're not alone. . . when assessing my favorite Dead stuff lately and sort of organizing my collection in that light. . . 1969 and 1972 were right there in the "most played" category.

Slightly off topic but the following article does have some Dead related content...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...DDGPMH7OT91.DTL

69 and 72, me too!

This is really stupid.

The most popular thread on a jazz forum is about a band , albeit led by a brilliant improviser , which amassed a massive fan base primarily consisting of folk looking for escapes from reality.

Jazz is all about courageous response to the cold harsh nature of reality for most on this earth -- not an escape.

How many deadheads do I know from my past who destroyed their lives with that "lifestyle" ...

... ok, all my right-[hand fingers all up and now I'm counting on my left.

Okay, I'll take the bait on this one.

What exactly is stupid about a bunch of folks having a discussion? Isn't that what this board is for? Tons of threads and postings that aren't about "jazz."

I beg to differ on the escape from realily remark. Music serves many functions: entertainment, enlightenment, intellectual challenge, release, and, yep, escape. Say--howz about all them dudes who shot smack and then hit the stage? What was that about? Escape? Damn straight. Listening to someone else's pain and identifying with it. When I listen to engaging music, I'm gone--off into their world. Don't listen and drive. Yeah, that's escape, and I like it.

I wonder how many jazz musicians and followers destroyed their lives. Now, that would make for a good thread. I don't think I've destroyed my life listening to the Dead and, quite frankly, I don't know anyone who has. And I've know hundreds of "heads." Jazzbo--you still in one piece? Tony? Chalupa? If you can count the ones you know on both hands, may I ever so humbly suggest that you get yerself some new friends?

As to your "definition" about jazz, thank you. I always wondered what it was about. You cleared that one up. Perhaps you should have it printed on a t-shirt and sell it on ebay.

It seems to me that great music is great music and that what constitutes great is in the ear of the listener as much as in the pen of the critic. Just because these guys played electric guitars doesn't mean they aren't worth a thread. The interplay between the members on a good night is just as intense as the interplay between any jazz group. It's just different in format. And, in case you hadn't noticed, there are many, many of us out there. Might be that the guy standing next to you in the checkout line is one, or the teller at your bank, or the next person you meet . . . . you freaking anti-deadite.

Fer godz sake, lighten up!!

Take your point John to a certain extent, but didnt a certain Jazz lifestyle also screw up a few lives? Or was Garcia the only musician to take junk?Have no Jass musicians shot smack? and didnt a fair few sad sacks play follow their leader?
I have no reason to apologise to anyone about my taste in music , and if you read my earliest responses in this thread you will see how my original hopes about the Dead were dashed when they didnt live up to my (sic) expectations about what a radical band could acheive in the real world, yeah capitalism recuperated even this most radical gesture, and what am I left with? In my opinion,great, great music from 69 and 72!
I post here about the Dead because I think that here are several posters whose opinions about music, both Jass and other is refreashingly undogmatic and certainly non sycophantic and who have opened my ears to plenty the last couple of years, and one thread also takes me back to my first love, and such is the nature of first love that it is often coloured by nostalgia... if you dont like them, fine and dandy,
Im off to clear the drive of snow....and then I am going to listen to the latest Cheikh Lo album, thats not jazz either.

With all due respect, your post seems what's really stupid to me!

"Jazz is all about courageous response to the cold harsh nature of reality for most on this earth -- not an escape."

Jazz isn't "all about" any such thing. Or any one thing. There are plenty who escaped reality with jazz and who ruined their lives with the same "lifestyle."

Great music is great music. I'm so tired of jazz arrogance!

And here I thought John was going to speak up for '73 & '74.



Actually the most popular is something entitled "funny rat." I think the old babe thread was bigger. It was truly a courageous response to the cold harsh nature of reality if there ever was one!



I'm sorry to say I can think of 2 1/2. Two are lawyers and 1 is applying to law school.

Wait a minute. I believe that I HAVE destroyed my life. I remember being warned that marijewwanna would lead to harder drugs like beer and stuff. Similarly, I was warned that the Grateful Dead might lead me down the road to heavier improvisational music. Righto on both counts. I started out on weed in 1967, about the same time I first saw the Dead. I really fell into the double pits of perdition over the next few years, drinking brews for breakfast, dropping acid, and slurping down the occasional bottle of Ripple. Oh, the downfall that followed! If I had only listened to my father in 1967 as he read the littany of current band names from the Wall Street Jouranl: the Jefferson Airplane, Big Brother and the Holding Company, the Mothers of Invention and--this one he laughed at the most--the Grateful Dead. And I was 15 and rebellious. I didn't hear his words of derisive wisdom.

By 1972, when DP 36 was recorded, I was lost. Lost I tell you. Lost to this damn devil music and accompanying demonic mind altering substances. Lost. Plain and simple. What happened next--I'm ashamed to tell, but since none of you know who I am in the real world, I do not fear your telling the local constabulary or my kids.

Yes, folks, I started to listen to--gasp--Jazz. Why, you might ask? Because that damned Grateful Dead bunch had opened my ears to a higher form of music, one in which several people would gather in one place and play improvisational music that actually required my attention. Oh. I fell for it. I thought that I was gaining some sort of knowledge--spiritual, intellectual, aesthetic, emotional. But I was fooling myself the whole time. I found myself hanging out with all sorts of scrofulous individuals, boys and girls singing the refrain from Dark Star or Sugar Magnolia. Sometimes that actually DANCED! Scruffy, long haired, wasted, lost , misguided. All of us.

As I said, I started to listen to Jazz. The Dead had opened my mind just enough to allow it to peer into the wonders which were Coltrane, Miles, Ornette, the Blue Note catalogue. Oh, I was falling fast. From here, it was all to facile to slide into the avante guarde--Cecil, Sun Ra, the--gasp--Art Ensemble of Chicago. Life changed. If I had been hiding in my room listening to the Grateful Dead on headphones, I was now locking the door--essentially locking out the real world--to escape (yes, I'll admit it) into this new world of reeds and brass. Screw Phil Lesh; now I had Malachi Favors and Cecil McBee to soothe what was left of my soul.

And then it happened. It's still painful to tell this tale--I still feel shame. I started going to concerts. Much as I had followed the Dead with it's scruffy hippie audience, I was now lured into the den of the hipsters, the cool sunglasses-at-night bunch who wandered the streets of Manhatten like homeless men searching for their next meal. We were wraiths--all of us. Half humans who were rapidly turning into useless shadows, cut off from the sweet milk of society. We were the hollow men. And we violated the central rule of law: White boys from the suburbs actually mingling freely with Black men from the filthy city. Unreal; unheard of.

Lost. Who cared about home, family, work? Such things had no value or meaning. Every dollar I earned went to that terrible drug called vinyl. I was ruined. And everytime I tried to kick the habit, a new Sonny Rollins disc would maginally appear from nowhere, calling my name, luring me back into the dark world
that was music.

Ruined. Destroyed--yes, that's the word. What use could I ever be to society or even myself. Vinyl. Concerts. Gone. Pooof. I was a full blown jazzaholic, and it's all thanks to the goddamned Grateful Dead.

If I had only listened to the wise words of my father, I wouldn't be where I am today, a pair of master's degrees and a doctorate later, running my own successful business, and loving my life.

Destroyed.

And let this be a warning to the rest of you: marijewanna is bad, n'kay? And the Grateful Dead--leave them alone, or you too might become enlightened--I mean destroyed.

Mama told not to get involved in stupids threads like this . . .

" I wish I had listed to what mama said,
then I wouldn't be here trying to sleep in this cold iron bed"

Big Railroad Blues

Mama tried, mama tried...

I went one one Grateful Dead concert--in Berkeley CA in '77 or '78. I went with about a dozen people who were all "Deadheads" and I knew almost NOTHING about the music. Most of the group dropped acid or ate mushrooms, but I didn't. When the band came out on stage they spent an ETERNITY messing around with their amps and instruments--no kidding, something like TEN MINUTES until Bob Weir stumbled up to the mic and said "all of my stuff works, but some of Jerry's stuff doesn't work yet." About five minutes later Garcia started chunking out some chords (his stuff was working by then) and then the band raggedly fell into the groove. At that moment someone next to me must have recognized the tune 'cuase she yelled out "Sugar Mag!" and the crowd went nuts.

They played for about 3 hours-- 15 minutes of which was made up of the most pretentious bullshit percussion extravaganza I have ever witnessed. The music was OK I guess--I cetrainly didn't hate it, but I never once felt the need to go hear these guys again or to buy one of their records.

they seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time tuning their instruments.
only zappa's groups seem to take longer as far as my listening experience has gone.

Allan, it's just too bad you didn't see them in '69 or '72!