Full Version: Louie Armstrong the singer or the trumpet Player?
For such a long time I only would listen to his trumpet playing. Recently, I have come to really enjoy his singing as much as his trumpet playing. But I have to vote for his trumpet playing. He's likely one of the first person to solo on record.
Well, it would be hard not to pick his trumpet playing, but that question is like asking a dad which of his kids he likes better, his son or his daughter! I think a lot of jazz snobs look down on both his singing AND his trumpet playing and toss them off as mere dixieland or uncle tomming, but that's their loss. He's like the Babe Ruth of jazz. Not only was he far and away the greatest improvisor and instrumentalist of his era, (and maybe any era), he also had that other side as a singer, which was almost as brilliant (like Babe Ruth's remarkable record as a pitcher).
| QUOTE (Joe M @ Jul 21 2004, 06:20 PM) |
| I think a lot of jazz snobs look down on both his singing AND his trumpet playing and toss them off as mere dixieland or uncle tomming, but that's their loss. |
Whaaaaaaaaaa?????
Who ARE these people?I voted for his trumpet playing, but I love his singing too.
Thing is louis the singer and Louis the trumpet player are absolutely and completely one and the same guy! (metaphorically as well as literally)
Who voted for the singer?
Very far from being the first person to solo on record. Very far indeed.
| QUOTE (Spontooneous @ Jul 21 2004, 09:41 PM) |
| Very far from being the first person to solo on record. Very far indeed. |
I believe he did it with the King Oliver band. This could be a debate with no ture answer.
I voted for the trumpet player. If I could listen to only his singing or playing, forever, I'd choose the trumpet playing. However, Armstrong's singing is a very nice counter to his trumpet playing. Whether Louis sings or plays... I step back and say 'play that funky music.' The guy had it all going on. There is a certain 'something' about Louis that, to me, touches all sides of jazz... all that came before him and all that came after.
Usually King Oliver's solo on "Dippermouth Blues" is mentioned as the first jazz solo. Louis first solo is "Chimes Blues" - both recorded the same day in 1923.
BUT....that IS a clarinet solo by Larry Shields on the Original Dixieland Jazz Band's 1921 "St. Louis Blues"....and probably somebody can come up with other early solos.
Louis the singer or Louis the trumpet player ??? WOW...I can't do it - they're inseparable.
BUT....that IS a clarinet solo by Larry Shields on the Original Dixieland Jazz Band's 1921 "St. Louis Blues"....and probably somebody can come up with other early solos.
Louis the singer or Louis the trumpet player ??? WOW...I can't do it - they're inseparable.
Louis' first recorded solos are with Oliver, yes. But plenty of artists recorded solos on other records earlier. Fr'instance, Joe Oliver.
We'll probably never identify the first. It sure wasn't Louis, though. He's not the first. Just one of the most amazing of all time, for all time.
We'll probably never identify the first. It sure wasn't Louis, though. He's not the first. Just one of the most amazing of all time, for all time.
Still in awe of the trumpet player (raised on Cornet Shop Suey, West End Blues et al).
Love the singer. Loved the performer.
Love the singer. Loved the performer.
| QUOTE (Joe M @ Jul 21 2004, 06:20 PM) |
| I think a lot of jazz snobs look down on both his singing AND his trumpet playing and toss them off as mere dixieland or uncle tomming, but that's their loss. |
I don't know if I'm a full-blown jazz snob yet. But, dammit, I'm trying! As a working-to-be jazz snob, I like Louis Armstrong very much, Dixieland, New Orleans jazz, et al.
| QUOTE (Harold_Z @ Jul 21 2004, 10:21 PM) |
| Usually King Oliver's solo on "Dippermouth Blues" is mentioned as the first jazz solo. Louis first solo is "Chimes Blues" - both recorded the same day in 1923. BUT....that IS a clarinet solo by Larry Shields on the Original Dixieland Jazz Band's 1921 "St. Louis Blues"....and probably somebody can come up with other early solos. Louis the singer or Louis the trumpet player ??? WOW...I can't do it - they're inseparable. |
Actually we are having a discussion on this on the other.. not to be mentioned BB.. Dan will get his tits in the mangle if we do, about King Oliver and items like this.
Harold.. Chimes blues was recorded before Dippermouth.. if one goes by the matrix numbers
Chimes = 11387
Dippermouth = 11389
fairly good sources give Chimes as being recorded April 5
Dippermouth.. April 6th.
Chimes is definitely Armstrong's first trumpet solo, although it is obviously well pre-prepared and is not improvised
Oliver's Dippermouth may be the first " important" Jazz solo.. though I don't think it was improvised either.
However Harold is correct.. there are probably earlier solos.
I think what might be interesting would be to discover what was the first ' improvised' solo on record.
Also... trivia question.. What was the recording where Armstrong's voice was heard for the first time.. hardly a vocal by my terminology, although I have seen it credited as such.
As for those Jazz Snobs.......... no comment.
P.D. SAID:
"Also... trivia question.. What was the recording where Armstrong's voice was heard for the first time.. hardly a vocal by my terminology, although I have seen it credited as such."
Pops' "Everybody Loves My Baby" with Fletcher Henderson. Louis sings a tag to end it. Not on the other takes. I think this was a 3rd take.
"Also... trivia question.. What was the recording where Armstrong's voice was heard for the first time.. hardly a vocal by my terminology, although I have seen it credited as such."
Pops' "Everybody Loves My Baby" with Fletcher Henderson. Louis sings a tag to end it. Not on the other takes. I think this was a 3rd take.
I didn't vote. Pops was ONE PERSON, ONE MUSICAL GENIUS MIND. That whole entity will always have my vote!
The trumpeter, no question. Enjoyable though it is, and I really like it, his singing is of no importance whatsoever if we are talking jazz innovation.
But Louis was an entertainer, and entertaining his singing was. And naturally, it was featured more as his chops aged.
But Louis was an entertainer, and entertaining his singing was. And naturally, it was featured more as his chops aged.
NO IMPORTANCE WHATSOEVER AS FAR AS JAZZ INNOVATION?
Not in my universe!
Not in my universe!
| QUOTE (jazzbo @ Jul 22 2004, 05:31 AM) |
| I didn't vote. Pops was ONE PERSON, ONE MUSICAL GENIUS MIND. That whole entity will always have my vote! |
Ditto
Singing AND playing... Louis Armstrong CHANGED music.
Profoundly.
Profoundly.
| QUOTE (Joe M @ Jul 21 2004, 06:20 PM) |
| Well, it would be hard not to pick his trumpet playing, but that question is like asking a dad which of his kids he likes better, his son or his daughter! I think a lot of jazz snobs look down on both his singing AND his trumpet playing and toss them off as mere dixieland or uncle tomming, but that's their loss. He's like the Babe Ruth of jazz. Not only was he far and away the greatest improvisor and instrumentalist of his era, (and maybe any era), he also had that other side as a singer, which was almost as brilliant (like Babe Ruth's remarkable record as a pitcher). |
Yep.
The real deal.
| QUOTE (White Lightning @ Jul 22 2004, 03:36 PM) | ||
Ditto |
Same here!
My "vote" is for the danasgoodstuff/jazzbo/White Lightning/Harold_Z/catesta/king ubu ticket.
charlesp
charlesp
"A Pops in every pot!" 
"...and pot in every Pops !" 
| QUOTE (charlesp @ Jul 22 2004, 09:27 AM) |
| My "vote" is for the danasgoodstuff/jazzbo/White Lightning/Harold_Z/catesta/king ubu ticket. charlesp |
I'm da boss!
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