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Jim Alfredson

10 Organ Records You Must Own To Post Here

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Clarence Wheeler IS a bad cat and that IS a bad album!!!! :tup

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A couple more to consider:

- Herbie on the "Jack Johnson" sessions

- Don Pullen on David Murray's two "Shakill's" albums

Please... Herbie ain't no organ player!! Sure, he plays piano like the proverbial mofo, but organ... shit, next you're going to nominate Oscar Peterson because he played organ on a couple cuts of that Pablo record (Jousts).

Lookit Man with the Golden Arm, trying to get all obscure on me. You got this?

482.jpg

not only do I got the ten on your list, and not only do I have the Clarence Wheeler side, but (here comes the fun fact)...Clarence sent me my copy himself. :g

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Impressive! Then why haven't been seeing much of you around here lately?

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As the moniker implies, I grew up in a relatively straight/trad bebop existence, sans organ, sans grease. So, I got through my formative/record buying years oblivious to this bastardization of the piano (KIDDING!). And yet, I find I've got 8 of the ten on the original list. So get with it, people!

Spinning right now - placed in motion before I even opened Organissimo for the day - Jacquet with Jimmy McGriff/Willd Bill Davis. Oh yeah, Sweet Georgia Brown.

Next up will be a taste of Milt Buckner - nice guy, whatever you think of his organ playing. (Again, with Jacquet..another nice cat.)

By the way, the Organissimo CD was the only one I bought in 2003. Surely that must count for something.

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Impressive! Then why haven't been seeing much of you around here lately?

two reasons:

1) band getting ready to record CD: my non-organ group is going into the studio next week to bash out the first of two sessions. We're getting the originals and the Metallica cover done this time out, and the standards in the next session. But pouring through our book to find the stuff we want, and then arrange and re-arrange it has been eating up my time.

2) I simply feel like I don't have much to further along the conversations these days. But, I'm still lurking. If I start feeling profound again at some point, I am sure I will hop back in.

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Best of luck on the recording project.

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Second that. Good luck, JP!

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You know, the new Miscellaneous Music "Top 20 Organ Songs" made me think about "organ played with singers"

which made me think of Al Green and Charles Hodges!!! :tup:tup:tup

(think "Love and Happiness")

which I know isn't JAZZ

but which prompted me to search old posts for "Charles Hodges"

which turned up this thread from the very first days of Organissimo:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...&st=0entry508

Missed it the first time around, but gives me the courage to say:

Charles Hodges!!!

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lets talk about "Live!" by McDuff for a second. Great record, but what a cheesy fake live recording. I d/l "Brother Jack Meets the Boss" on emusic and burned it but haven't listened to it yet.

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lets talk about "Live!" by McDuff for a second. Great record, but what a cheesy fake live recording. I d/l "Brother Jack Meets the Boss" on emusic and burned it but haven't listened to it yet.

You're right. It IS super cheesy and super fake. Somehow, it doesn't seem to bother me. I even kind of dig it, especially Jack's fake little intros like into "Whistle While You Work." And though it's considered Jack's most famous album, it's not my personal favorite. "Tough Duff" is my favorite Jack LP.

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I really don't have much by McDuff, but I do enjoy Down Home Style, which I picked up a while ago.

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lets talk about "Live!" by McDuff for  a second.  Great record, but what a cheesy fake live recording.  I d/l "Brother Jack Meets the Boss" on emusic and burned it but haven't listened to it yet.

You're right. It IS super cheesy and super fake. Somehow, it doesn't seem to bother me. I even kind of dig it, especially Jack's fake little intros like into "Whistle While You Work." And though it's considered Jack's most famous album, it's not my personal favorite. "Tough Duff" is my favorite Jack LP.

Just one note on "Live"...it IS live...recorded at the Front Room in Newark. Of that I have no doubt. RVG would never have allowed his Leslie to be driven THAT hard. But, the added "fake" intros and outros are pretty horrid.

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I'd never heard of McGriffs I'VE GOT A WOMAN before this thread, but after listening to some clips online, I am very excited about getting my hands on a copy!

Someone on one of these lists threads had asked about some all stops out, balls to the wall playing. Well this is IT!!

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I really don't have much by McDuff, but I do enjoy Down Home Style, which I picked up a while ago.

And that is probably one of my least favorite McDuff records.

McDuff was one of the best. He did a lot of great Prestige/Fantasy stuff that has been reissued lately.

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Holy semolians! Eddie Lockjaw Davis & Shirley Scott "Smokin' ", is one SMOKIN' set!!

Thanks for the heads up on THAT one! :tup B-) :tup

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Hell yeah it is. Introduced to me in person by Jim, Joe, and Shawn down in Dallas a few years back. I still haven't bought that Lucky Thompson disc we listened to, but I had to get Smokin' as soon as I got home!

All you b-3 fans, how many of the players listed above play bass pedals? I was talking to someone the other night about Larry Young and they said he played bass with his left hand. Listening to stuff like Iron City and Talkin' Bout, it seems that he is playing bass with is feet, comping with his left, and playing melodies with his right. I'm trying to wrap my ear around it. One thing I dig about Babyface is that he is really working that thing with all his limbs! He really gets it moving. I'm talking about Stop And Listen. Haven't been lucky enough to come across Face To Face...

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I don't think Shirley Scott played much bass at all. At least not on the the records I have.

Edited by wolff

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Hell yeah it is. Introduced to me in person by Jim, Joe, and Shawn down in Dallas a few years back. I still haven't bought that Lucky Thompson disc we listened to, but I had to get Smokin' as soon as I got home!

All you b-3 fans, how many of the players listed above play bass pedals? I was talking to someone the other night about Larry Young and they said he played bass with his left hand. Listening to stuff like Iron City and Talkin' Bout, it seems that he is playing bass with is feet, comping with his left, and playing melodies with his right. I'm trying to wrap my ear around it. One thing I dig about Babyface is that he is really working that thing with all his limbs! He really gets it moving. I'm talking about Stop And Listen. Haven't been lucky enough to come across Face To Face...

There are basically three schools of playing the bass pedals. The pre-Jimmy Smith guys usually played all bass lines on the pedals. The bass pedals on the Hammond are notoriously "flubby" sounding compared to real organ pedals, but they do the job.

Jimmy Smith developed a technique that I call "shadowing". Not sure if that's the common name for it. Basically, you play the bass with your left hand and shadow those notes with the pedals, tapping the pedal at the beginning of each note to create a staccato effect. The idea is to make the bassline sound more like an acoustic bass which is plucked. Tapping the bass pedal, but not holding it down, at the front of your left hand bass line simulates the plucking and gives the line what we like to call "the hump". Every now and then you lay into the pedals and sustain the note and it creates a nice effect. Jimmy Smith really only played all pedals on ballads and such. It's not to say that he couldn't, but the technique he developed leads to a more defined, more swingin' bassline.

The last school is to not play pedals at all. Guys like Larry Goldings, Sam Yahel, and Larry Young. Larry Young did play bass pedals when he was copying Jimmy Smith (on his Prestige dates, for instance) and he used them for accenting here and there, but overall he does not use them like Jimmy. Goldings is much the same. Yahel uses them sparsely as well.

Personally I prefer the shadowing technique. I think it provides a better feel and more tonal options.

Check out this thread for more history of the organ:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...topic=4239&st=0

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Any takers for Impulse 51 Shirley Scott: For Members Only, one side her trio the other some Oliver Nelson charts for medium sized band added. Quite nice really.

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Hell yeah it is. Introduced to me in person by Jim, Joe, and Shawn down in Dallas a few years back. I still haven't bought that Lucky Thompson disc we listened to, but I had to get Smokin' as soon as I got home!

All you b-3 fans, how many of the players listed above play bass pedals? I was talking to someone the other night about Larry Young and they said he played bass with his left hand. Listening to stuff like Iron City and Talkin' Bout, it seems that he is playing bass with is feet, comping with his left, and playing melodies with his right. I'm trying to wrap my ear around it. One thing I dig about Babyface is that he is really working that thing with all his limbs! He really gets it moving. I'm talking about Stop And Listen. Haven't been lucky enough to come across Face To Face...

There are basically three schools of playing the bass pedals. The pre-Jimmy Smith guys usually played all bass lines on the pedals. The bass pedals on the Hammond are notoriously "flubby" sounding compared to real organ pedals, but they do the job.

Jimmy Smith developed a technique that I call "shadowing". Not sure if that's the common name for it. Basically, you play the bass with your left hand and shadow those notes with the pedals, tapping the pedal at the beginning of each note to create a staccato effect. The idea is to make the bassline sound more like an acoustic bass which is plucked. Tapping the bass pedal, but not holding it down, at the front of your left hand bass line simulates the plucking and gives the line what we like to call "the hump". Every now and then you lay into the pedals and sustain the note and it creates a nice effect. Jimmy Smith really only played all pedals on ballads and such. It's not to say that he couldn't, but the technique he developed leads to a more defined, more swingin' bassline.

The last school is to not play pedals at all. Guys like Larry Goldings, Sam Yahel, and Larry Young. Larry Young did play bass pedals when he was copying Jimmy Smith (on his Prestige dates, for instance) and he used them for accenting here and there, but overall he does not use them like Jimmy. Goldings is much the same. Yahel uses them sparsely as well.

Personally I prefer the shadowing technique. I think it provides a better feel and more tonal options.

Check out this thread for more history of the organ:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...topic=4239&st=0

Yes Jim, people are always so concerned about the bass pedals. Whether or not you're playing them and how much. Funny how most don't know what the pedals if SOUND like compared to the "normal" left has bass settings.

I love the pedals, but in my book, some players use the pedals TOO MUCH where it becomes annoying. I find myself doing this when I have somebody(s) sitting right next to the organ and watching my feet. They want to know how the pedals work, and I want to show them!!! But, I find the pedals can get overbearing to the music if you're not doing it with taste. They're like spice, a little bit goes a long way. And of course, many of the best players in the world hardly or never use them, including most all of the new guys. My theory is most of the younger guys learned on organ simulator synths, and therefore don't know about the pedals.

Heck, the guy from Soulive doesn't use the pedals at all and now uses a synth on top of the organ for his bass. And he kicks ass. However, I'm from the old school in the sense that I think you need to know organ bass pedals. Because it's part of how you REALLY play jazz organ. There are times, like ballads, where that's you're whole bass because you're chording with one hand and playing lines with the other. THAT'S a beautiful feeling that all organists should experience.

Plus, it's really not that damn hard. Guys psych themselves out with the pedals. Leon Spencer Jr. gave me some great pedal advice..."When you start to play pedals, spend 20 minutes a day playing lefthand bass and pedals in unison while LOOKING at both." That is really good advice that works to get your bearings on them. Also, another organ guru when I first started gave me great advice..."When you first get on the organ, forget about the pedals for a while. You got too much other shit you gotta worry about." And that's true as well.

Edited by Soul Stream

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It took me several years to feel comfortable with the pedals. But I agree with my mentor: "If you don't play pedals, you might as well be playing piano!" I meet people all the time that are happy to see a "youngin" like myself carrying on the tradition. We had a drummer sit in at our last Founder's gig who grew up in GR (his dad is a great drummer as well) but is now down in Dallas. He said there's nobody in Dallas that plays the organ "the right way", ie using the pedals. He told me the first thing he did when he walked in and saw me playing was check out my feet! "You're for real!"

:)

No, they don't have to be used all the time and in fact I enjoy starting certain tunes without them and then adding them on the bridge (to use one example). Or in funk tunes, there's a whole different way of using them that Chester Thompson does really well.

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There's a guy in Dallas named Tommy Young, a guy in his 50's who is buddies with Jimmy Smith. They hung quite a bit. Tommy uses pedals and is a "real" guy. Other than that, there's another guy, Eric Scortia who Jsngry probably knows. I haven't seen him, but knows he's plays with Marchel Ivery and is a "complete" organist so to speak I believe. Other than those guys "Red" Young is in Dallas and is the best pedal guys I've every seen. Playing whole uptempo numbers on pedals only. So that guy needs to go out more!

To my surprise, there are 3 (to my knowledge, maybe more) guys in the Austin area who are great old timers. Bill Tanner, James Polk and Joe Killian (who replaced Baby Face Willette at the Moraccan Lounge in Chicago).

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Who's the GR Drummer from Dallas?

Tommy Young is a fixture on the over-50 lounge circuit, a really wierd scene that I've also gotten my feet wet in. You play a mix of schlock pop, 60s R&B/R&R, a little blues, and a few standards for affluent silver-haired (mostly) divorced folks in various states of sobriety who are looking for a hookup. Imagaine us on the prowl when we were 22, and then imagine us doing the same thing once we've got grandkids, and you get the idea.

Anyway, that's the only context I've heard Tommy Young in, but he always sounds like he's a player who's better than that.

Eric Scortia I went to school w/at NTSU back in the day. Funny, back then he was all over the map in terms of organ styles. I remember palying a gig w/him back then where we covered Booker T, Charles Earland, and something from UNITY all on the first set. Today, he's more or less in the soul-jazz vein, and has a CD (or two?) out on his own. Marchel is definitely his go-to guy (and w/good reason!), but once in a while Marchel can't make it, and a few of those times he's called me to sub. Unfortunately, I've aways been already booked, which sucks, becasue I've never player in a true jazz organ group. R&B, yeah. Cats who lean on B-3 sythn patches all night, yeah. But never the real deal. I'm sad about that, as much as I love that stuff. Eric can play what he chooses to play very nicely.

Red Young is a new name to me. I'll ask around, though. I know a lot of the vets in this town, but by no means all, especially considering how underground some of this stuff is in terms of gigs and stuff.

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...the over-50 lounge circuit, a really wierd scene that I've also gotten my feet wet in. You play a mix of schlock pop, 60s R&B/R&R, a little blues, and a few standards for affluent silver-haired (mostly) divorced folks in various states of sobriety who are looking for a hookup.

MAN !....That really sounds like the average New Jersey lounge band scene !

I can actually dig gigs like that on the rare occasions when everybody - all the musicians - are on the same page...i.e. appropriately hip and appropriately sardonic.

Usually the guy fucking gigs like that up is the leader.

Edit to add - ...And when they're bad but there's a couple of hip players - there are definitely big laughs - Sarcasm reigns supreme !

Edited by Harold_Z

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