Rooster_Ties

Notable young sidemen in big bands in the 70s-80's

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Mostly white guys in this thread.

Does this mean anything or not?

Is this the best they can do with their degrees from school?

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That's what they USED to do with thier degrees. Not Now. Now they go directly into" straight " jobs!

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Mostly white guys in this thread.

Does this mean anything or not?

Is this the best they can do with their degrees from school?

considering that many of the really good young black players are currently holding down one of the only jazz gigs available in NYC at Lincoln Center.. or are alumnae thereof ..

and other than the Basie and Ellington ghost bands, where were they to find work during that period?

It seems to me that many of the black players of that period came out of the Brooklyn scene, M-Base and all that ..not the few remaining ghost bands out there..guys like Bobby Watson, Vincent Herring, James Spaulding, Victor Lewis, et al.

..and my current favorite straight ahead rhythm team: Christian McBride and Greg Hutchison :tup:P:P:P

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SGUD, you miss my point and the point of the thread as I understood it.

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considering that many of the really good young black players are currently holding down one of the only jazz gigs available in NYC at Lincoln Center.. or are alumnae thereof ..

and other than the Basie and Ellington ghost bands, where were they to find work during that period?

It seems to me that many of the black players of that period came out of the Brooklyn scene, M-Base and all that ..not the few remaining ghost bands out there..guys like Bobby Watson, Vincent Herring, James Spaulding, Victor Lewis, et al.

..and my current favorite straight ahead rhythm team: Christian McBride and Greg Hutchison :tup:P:P:P

Are you saying they can only find work in white bands. or only white bands provide jobs. or what? Seems like white guys played in the Ellington ghost (and otherwise) band on a regular basis.

My point is about the direction of the "formal" education and those results.

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Don't see mention of the Arkestra yet - Craig Harris; Alex Blake; Stafford James; Vincent Chancey; Jaribu Shahid; Tani Tabbal come to mind.

The Widespread Depression Orchestra had Randy & Jordan Sandke; Tad Shull; Michael Hashim; Mike LeDonne; Phil Flanigan. When Buck Clayton formed his Swing Band he borrowed several players from them. Scott Robinson was also in that band.

--

Despite having two college degrees in music, Michael Philp Mossman touched just about all the bases -

His earliest recordings are with big bands led by Braxton; Leo Smith; Roscoe Mitchell in 1978-79.

Then big band work with Count Basie; Lionel Hampton; Machito; George Gruntz; Gil Evans; Toshiko Akiyoshi; Gene Harris & Philip Morris Superband; Bob Mintzer; Gerry Mulligan; Mario Bauza; Chico O'Farrill; Slide Hampton; Carnegie Hall Jazz Band; Mingus Big Band; etc.

Not to mention all the small group gigs - Art Blakey; Horace Silver; Michel Camilo; and of course, OTB.

I would say he's a prime example of someone who got all the experience he could get with the veterans, despite his starting only in the late 1970s. You can't get that now.

Mike

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Has Ricky Ford w/Mercer Ellington been mentioned yet?

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Although, how many schools have a Ran Blake (a.o.) on the faculty?

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That's a whole 'nother subject - how many have a Kenny Barron, how many have a Herb Pomeroy, how many have a David Baker, how many have a Bobby Bradford, etc. All those guys are one of a kind. In the end, there are things you can get on the road and things you can get on campus. But I don't know that there are any guarantees that you *will* get those things there.

Mike

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Indeed.

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Steve Coleman w/Mel Lewis.

Actually when I joined it was the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis band (later it became Mel's band and I stayed on for 1-1/2 years). I also played with Sam Rivers big band, Slide Hampton's big band and Cecil Taylor's big band (as well as a small big band with Paul Jefferies - Monk arranger). Before I lived in NY, when I lived in Chicago I played in many big bands, but Thad's band was the one I wanted to join early on. I learned a great deal from Thad and from Sam Rivers and Cecil Taylor (even though that was only one week). A good Big Band is an invaluable experience for young players.

Steve Coleman

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All love and props to Steve Coleman!

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Just watched it with the sound off. :D

I wish she wouldn't dye her hair.

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Wrong thread? ;)

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Just watched it with the sound off.  :D

I wish she wouldn't dye her hair.

Think so?

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Steve Coleman w/Mel Lewis.

Actually when I joined it was the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis band (later it became Mel's band and I stayed on for 1-1/2 years). I also played with Sam Rivers big band, Slide Hampton's big band and Cecil Taylor's big band (as well as a small big band with Paul Jefferies - Monk arranger). Before I lived in NY, when I lived in Chicago I played in many big bands, but Thad's band was the one I wanted to join early on. I learned a great deal from Thad and from Sam Rivers and Cecil Taylor (even though that was only one week). A good Big Band is an invaluable experience for young players.

Steve Coleman

Welcome to the mad house known as Organissimo. :P

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Thad and Mel tenor saxophonist Gregory Herbert (non-white guy -- fine player, sadly deceased way too young).

Regarding Chuck's long ago question, given the nature stylistically of many (most?) regulariy working big bands of that period, how many young black players of the time would have wanted to play in those bands? For various reasons they largely played for white audiences and played the sort of material those audiences expected and wanted to hear. Steve Coleman (above) did want to play with Thad and Mel and did so, but that band was sui generis.

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Thomas Chapin did the Lionel Hampton gig.

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George Lewis (the trombonist) toured with Count Basie.

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So in theory, you could have had a Basie trombone section of Curtis Fuller, Fred Wesley, and George Lewis...and Butch Miles on drums.

So much for in theory...

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NEVER FIGURED OUT who the musical director (alto player) of the Lionel Hampton big band show c. '00-01 was.   He was really fantastic though.  

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Posted (edited)

Before Kenny Garrett played with Mel Lewis, he toured for three years with Mercer Ellington -- rather than enroll at Berklee, which was his original plan. 

Rickey Woodard played with Ray Charles in the '80s.

Cecil (and Ron) Bridgewater played with Thad and Mel in the '70s. For that matter, Dee Dee. Bridgewater also sang with Thad and Mel in the early '70s. 

I saw a reference earlier in this thread to Branford Marsalis and Conrad Herwig playing with Clark Terry in the '70s. Actually, that band formed in 1980 or 81 as I recall --  I heard them in Fort Wayne, Indiana at a high school jazz festival in spring 1981. Branford played alto. Others in that band included Conrad Herwing on trombone, Bryon Stripling on trumpet, John Campbell on piano. Veteran Chris Woods was a featured soloist on alto. 

Clayton Cameron and Suggie Otis and played with Gerald Wilson in the '80s.

John Clayton played with Basie in the '70s and Gerald Wilson in the 1980s.

Anthony Wilson started playing with Gerald Wilson in the late '80s.

George Mraz played with Thad and Mel in the '70s. 

Gary Smulyan played baritone saxophone with Woddy Herman c. 1979. 

Jim Snidero played with Toshiko in the mid 80s.

Jeff Ballard played with Ray Charles in the late '80s. 

Jim McNeely played with Thad and Mel in the late '70s. 

Dick Oats and Rich Perry started with Thad and Mel in the late '70s and are still with the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra.

Tom Harrell, Kenny Berger, David Berger, Claudio Roditi, Bob Mintzer, and Gregory Herbert all played with Chuck Israel's National Jazz Ensemble in the '70s.

Jack Walrath played with Ray Charles in the early '70s.

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Edited by Mark Stryker

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