Jump to content

BFT 140 - Discussion of The Freedom Principle


jeffcrom

Recommended Posts

The second thing on your BFT that really grabbed me right off is track 4 in this section.  I can't come up with good enough words to describe it.  Haunting maybe?  I am going to try figure this one out because some of the players do sound familiar but you could also just go ahead and ID it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, NIS said:

The second thing on your BFT that really grabbed me right off is track 4 in this section.  I can't come up with good enough words to describe it.  Haunting maybe?  I am going to try figure this one out because some of the players do sound familiar but you could also just go ahead and ID it now.

Nice try. Yes, some well-known players here, mostly pretty early in their recording careers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn! Kenny W, of course. I knew I knew the trumpeter well. I shall now do penance for mistaking Kenny Wheeler and Leo Smith between whom I must have over 40 albums on my shelves. I could find myself expelled from the boards's Modern/Avant fraternity for such a mistake ;)

Certainly time to dig out the SME again

 

Edited by mjazzg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Track 1 - Hmm… odd that this is the first track on the section entitled “Freedom Principal”.  This seems too rigid to me.  A lot of the conservatory in play here.  Not sure who it is, but seems to be a saxophone quartet-plus setting.  I know who it ISN’T, and that’s the WSQ.  Seems like these guys are just a tick below the top tier.  It’s not as free and gruff as it wants to be.  
 
Track 2 - I’m not feeling this one.  I think they’re achieving the abstract feel they’re going for, but not in a way that makes me care.  Kenny Werner’s stuff strikes me this way.  I’ll pass.
 
Track 3 - A nice nod to the Ornette feel.  This is not that, but it’s honest in what it is trying to accomplish.  There’s an actual discussion taking place here (which was not present on the previous track).  This is based enough in the blues that I’m buying it.  The alto player has that rumbling, tumbling attack kind of like Sonny Simmons (not him).  This draws me in.  Free, loose, but seems to have a point.  Somebody cares.  
 
Track 4 - This is the kind of thing that, seen live, could be fascinating.  I’m not getting much out of this, though.  I’ve seen stuff like this live that I thought was bullshit, too.  This is not that, but it’s not resonating.
 
Track 5 - I’m out.  Not into shape-shifting keys.  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 - Works for me.  Looking forward to the ID.  I usually long for a bass player on this sort of thing, but this cut doesn't need it (and would have no room for it).

2 - I own a lot of this sort of thing, but don't listen to it much.  Probably has great historical value.  Oliver Lake-ish to me.

3 - I like the alto player a lot.  Sounds like Sonny Simmons.

4 - Not my cup of tea.  It don't mean a thing if it ain't got some swing, or whatever.

5 - Utterly,  totally lost on me.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, tkeith said:
Track 1 - Hmm… odd that this is the first track on the section entitled “Freedom Principal”.  This seems too rigid to me.  A lot of the conservatory in play here.  Not sure who it is, but seems to be a saxophone quartet-plus setting.  I know who it ISN’T, and that’s the WSQ.  Seems like these guys are just a tick below the top tier.  It’s not as free and gruff as it wants to be.  
 
Track 2 - I’m not feeling this one.  I think they’re achieving the abstract feel they’re going for, but not in a way that makes me care.  Kenny Werner’s stuff strikes me this way.  I’ll pass.
 
Track 3 - A nice nod to the Ornette feel.  This is not that, but it’s honest in what it is trying to accomplish.  There’s an actual discussion taking place here (which was not present on the previous track).  This is based enough in the blues that I’m buying it.  The alto player has that rumbling, tumbling attack kind of like Sonny Simmons (not him).  This draws me in.  Free, loose, but seems to have a point.  Somebody cares.  
 
Track 4 - This is the kind of thing that, seen live, could be fascinating.  I’m not getting much out of this, though.  I’ve seen stuff like this live that I thought was bullshit, too.  This is not that, but it’s not resonating.
 
Track 5 - I’m out.  Not into shape-shifting keys.  

 

3 hours ago, felser said:

1 - Works for me.  Looking forward to the ID.  I usually long for a bass player on this sort of thing, but this cut doesn't need it (and would have no room for it).

2 - I own a lot of this sort of thing, but don't listen to it much.  Probably has great historical value.  Oliver Lake-ish to me.

3 - I like the alto player a lot.  Sounds like Sonny Simmons.

4 - Not my cup of tea.  It don't mean a thing if it ain't got some swing, or whatever.

5 - Utterly,  totally lost on me.  

I like the contrast between your reactions to track 1.

No connection to Oliver Lake on track 2.

Thom is right, that's not Sonny Simmons on track 3. I included this because I wanted something with a strong Ornette influence, and I like this young altoist.

I figured that track 5 would be the most controversial thing in all four sections. It certainly occurred to me that it could be a track that absolutely no one likes. I do like it, but I'm odd. As is track 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm rather taken by track 5. the instrumentation reminds me of some of the younger Norwegian players like Dans Les Arbres but the musical style bears little resemblance. It sounds more American somehow. A complete stab in the dark makes me wonder whether Cooper Moore is involved?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I'm rather taken by track 5. the instrumentation reminds me of some of the younger Norwegian players like Dans Les Arbres but the musical style bears little resemblance. It sounds more American somehow. A complete stab in the dark makes me wonder whether Cooper Moore is involved?

American for sure. No Cooper-Moore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haven't looked at the other responses yet, though I will after I post.

 

1 - Sounds like Dolphy's "Miss Ann", though obviously not Dolphy. The drummer on this cut turned me off so much that I had trouble picking up on the other musicians.

2 - I didn't care for the pianist. I assume it was his date. I did enjoy what little I heard of the saxophonist.

3 - Someone has learned his Ornette. No idea who it is. Charles Brackeen or Sonny Simmons came to mind, but I don't think that either of them would play anything quite so close to Ornette. I'd probably buy this recording.

4 - Sounds to me like the musicians were influenced by the AACM, though they could be European. Sounds like something from the 1970's.

5 - This isn't something that appeals to me - I tend to be more of a straight ahead blowing fan - though somehow I have the feeling that with more listening it might grow on me.

I enjoyed listening to several of these tracks (3,4, possibly 5). I love being exposed to music that's new to me, even if I'm shown up as a dummy who couldn't identify anything here.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, paul secor said:

Haven't looked at the other responses yet, though I will after I post.

 

1 - Sounds like Dolphy's "Miss Ann", though obviously not Dolphy. The drummer on this cut turned me off so much that I had trouble picking up on the other musicians.

2 - I didn't care for the pianist. I assume it was his date. I did enjoy what little I heard of the saxophonist.

3 - Someone has learned his Ornette. No idea who it is. Charles Brackeen or Sonny Simmons came to mind, but I don't think that either of them would play anything quite so close to Ornette. I'd probably buy this recording.

4 - Sounds to me like the musicians were influenced by the AACM, though they could be European. Sounds like something from the 1970's.

5 - This isn't something that appeals to me - I tend to be more of a straight ahead blowing fan - though somehow I have the feeling that with more listening it might grow on me.

I enjoyed listening to several of these tracks (3,4, possibly 5). I love being exposed to music that's new to me, even if I'm shown up as a dummy who couldn't identify anything here.

 

 

Didn't expect to see you here - thanks for playing, Paul.

Yes, "Miss Ann." I like the drummer, but I'm a fan of the George Clinton line, "Funk is its own reward."

Track 2 is from an album co-led by the pianist and saxophonist. I kind of regret not choosing a track on which the saxist is more prominent.

Track 4 is partially identified above.

Yeah, track 5 is a strange one. See comments above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I love Track 5.  To me, it is one of the few times that electronic sounds were recorded in a convincing jazz way. These electronic sounds might or might not have come from a keyboard instrument. I am not sure. It almost sounds like they came directly from an electronic device of some sort. Whatever the origins of the sounds, I find this very compelling. I could listen to an entire album of this kind of thing. Heck, I could listen to a 10 CD box set of this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Computer problems have left The Magnificent Goldberg unable to post here, so he has emailed me his comments so that I can post them. Since I'm revealing the answers in a few hours, I'll let that serve as my reply.

1 Very exciting! Well, I can’t say I like it, but I AM excited. I think I’ve heard the alto player making those forties honks before – that Jewish guy who made a couple of albums with John Patton; can’t be asked to dig out those CDs at present. And I think he plays the same kind of Jewish music you do, only without the Fela Kuti angle.

2 Is there a sub-genre called Lounge Avant Garde? Or would this be its only representative? Well, really, it’s lounge music in the same way that Ahmad Jamal was, in that it depends on the listener, not the player.

3 Ah well, back to normality; players trying too hard to take bop nine steps farther on.

4 Hm… Chicago.
Or St Louis.

5 Quiet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...