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Rabshakeh

Your favourite early bebop LPs

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Posted (edited)

I find box sets or multiple CD editions a bit indigestible, and, even when it comes to earlier bebop sides, I much prefer to listen to the older 10” or 12” LP packaged versions when possible.   To my mind, for example, the best starting point for bebop would be The Charlie Parker Story, rather than The Complete Savoy Studio Sessions, which tends to tire me out.

74AB5A20-2461-49F2-A7B2-C460F406933C.jpeg

So, does anyone else share this view, and, if so, what are you favourites among the earlier releases or packages?

Edited by Rabshakeh

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2 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

I find box sets or multiple CD editions a bit indigestible, and, even when it comes to earlier bebop sides, I much prefer to listen to the older 10” or 12” LP packaged versions when possible.   To my mind, for example, the best starting point for bebop would be The Charlie Parker Story, rather than The Complete Savoy Studio Sessions.

 

74AB5A20-2461-49F2-A7B2-C460F406933C.jpeg

So, does anyone else share this view, and, if so, what are you favourites among the earlier releases or packages?

If you're really cool you listen to them on 78s :cool:

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Picked this one up out of the cutout bins pretty early in my discovery, guess you could say that it imprinted.

361405003419.jpg

this one too, especially as it pertained to imprinting on airshots, not studio recordings:

s-l300.jpg

there were others...cheap records used to be everywhere, like this one:

R-5531583-1528107614-1675.jpeg.jpg

 

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I never had this one, but apparently a lot of people did:

R-2543619-1289680681.jpeg.jpg

 

I had this one:

R-14257572-1570886908-4784.jpeg.jpg

R-14257572-1570886908-6016.jpeg.jpg

Dedicate to jazz through sound, please note.

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The Quintet: Jazz at Massey Hall - Jazz Messengers

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

I find box sets or multiple CD editions a bit indigestible, and, even when it comes to earlier bebop sides, I much prefer to listen to the older 10” or 12” LP packaged versions when possible.   To my mind, for example, the best starting point for bebop would be The Charlie Parker Story, rather than The Complete Savoy Studio Sessions, which tends to tire me out.

74AB5A20-2461-49F2-A7B2-C460F406933C.jpeg

So, does anyone else share this view, and, if so, what are you favourites among the earlier releases or packages?

I don’t share this view as The Complete Dial and Savoy is one of the best box sets ever issued and diminishes the necessity of owning the individual sessions. It’s a set I listen to often. The complete set has an advantage over the individual releases in that you get the various alternates and that’s important in listening to Bird although I realize that not everybody likes that approach. Some just care for the released masters.

Of course, there’s nothing wrong to listening to the individual sessions, if that’s your pleasure.  

Edited by Brad

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Bird is obvious, but here are some of the bebop LPs (not originals but by now fairly older eissues :D) that got me right into the heart of bebop things way back in the 70s. Well-programmed and essential.

40769178jk.jpg

40769180rv.jpg

40769181jc.jpg

40769183zt.jpg

And this one (since superseded by the RCA Black & White twofer but I still recqll teh impression it made)

40769184tz.jpg

 

 

 

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Regarding the box set fatigue, I get that totally. I love the Dial Mosaic set but have always wanted to put together a shorter playlist (or mixtape :cool:) of some of that material to make it more streamlined. 

Anyway, this Savoy comp CD is a good one:

R-8048943-1581953037-2434.jpeg.jpg

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6 minutes ago, felser said:

The Quintet: Jazz at Massey Hall - Jazz Messengers

I had to get that one here, pre-OJC, coupled with the Bud set from the same gig:

R-1252193-1510518130-6581.jpeg.jpg

2 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Regarding the box set fatigue, I get that totally. I love the Dial Mosaic set but have always wanted to put together a shorter playlist (or mixtape :cool:) of some of that material to make it more streamlined. 

Yeah, I don't think those type sets are really meant to be enjoyed in their entirety in more or less one listening session too many times. I have them as sort of a library, a source to go to for a piece of whatever it is that I'm looking for.

 

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20 minutes ago, Brad said:

I don’t share this view as The Complete Dial and Savoy is one of the best box sets ever issued and diminishes the necessity of owning the individual sessions. It’s a set I listen to often. The complete set has an advantage over the individual releases in that you get the various alternates and that’s important in listening to Bird although I realize that not everybody likes that approach. Some just care for the released masters.

Of course, there’s nothing wrong to listening to the individual sessions, if that’s your pleasure.  

That's part of the reason I like Story so much - it has lots of alternate takes. 

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Posted (edited)

R-1709235-1238431720.jpeg.jpg

 

Completely agree with the idea that box sets can sometimes be difficult to digest -- especially those from the pre-LP era.  (I usually make playlists of the original albums if the music in the box was originally released as LPs.)

 

Edited by HutchFan

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36 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

R-14257572-1570886908-4784.jpeg.jpg

 

Dedicate to jazz through sound, please note.

Oddly one of the only records my father in law owned. 

Other than endless Goon Show alumni's records.

2 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

Completely agree with the idea that box sets can sometimes be difficult to digest -- especially those from the pre-LP era.  (I usually make playlists of the original albums if the music in the box was originally released as LPs.)

Me too. The idea for this thread actually came from the mixtape thread that is ongoing at the moment.

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Mine had this cover and introduced me to the concept of alternate takes -

R-6371810-1417612873-8033.jpeg.jpg

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It was a good time to get earlier bebops on LP:

R-3191777-1526402344-7423.jpeg.jpg

R-12437391-1535284210-1283.jpeg.jpg

Then...Side Two of this one is, in a sense, a perfect record - four of Bird's best ballads, nothing else. We played it for both of our kids while they were in utero.

R-7973022-1575462963-4879.jpeg.jpg

R-7973022-1575462980-9865.jpeg.jpg

R-5288283-1450375685-5908.jpeg.jpg

Perfect.

 

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10 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Mine had this cover and introduced me to the concept of alternate takes -

R-6371810-1417612873-8033.jpeg.jpg

I prefer this cover. The king one looks a bit cheap and silly! 

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I had to get that one here, pre-OJC, coupled with the Bud set from the same gig:

R-1252193-1510518130-6581.jpeg.jpg

 

Me too, one of the first 5-10 jazz purchase I made in the early 70's.

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Never had The Charlie Parker Story although I’m familiar with the “king” cover. The one Chuck showed looks a whole lot better. 

1 hour ago, Dub Modal said:

Regarding the box set fatigue, I get that totally. I love the Dial Mosaic set but have always wanted to put together a shorter playlist (or mixtape :cool:) of some of that material to make it more streamlined. 

Anyway, this Savoy comp CD is a good one:

R-8048943-1581953037-2434.jpeg.jpg

I have this although it’s been ages since I listened to it. 

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6 hours ago, JSngry said:

It was a good time to get earlier bebops on LP:

R-3191777-1526402344-7423.jpeg.jpg

R-12437391-1535284210-1283.jpeg.jpg

Then...Side Two of this one is, in a sense, a perfect record - four of Bird's best ballads, nothing else. We played it for both of our kids while they were in utero.

R-7973022-1575462963-4879.jpeg.jpg

R-7973022-1575462980-9865.jpeg.jpg

R-5288283-1450375685-5908.jpeg.jpg

Perfect.

 

They may serve a purpose if used for specific tracks, but ... I can't say I am that fond of these Roulette Echoes of an Era thrown-together twofer series that much .. Bought the Stan Getz one in my earlier collecting days (one of those purchases when you happen upon certain material at an affordable price first time and don't have the fuller overview yet) and it took me AGES to get those sessions (that had been part-reissued there) in a really coherent and virtually complete fashion elsewhere (particularly the Boston Storyville recordings) without having to worry and search too much about excessive duplications the other way. Grating ... (unless you dump these twofer right away - as soon as you find the compelte sessions including all you already have on these - and decide never to worry about having bought them in the first place)

As for the above LPs, they will certianly have been good as appetizers and will have been worth it if picked up cheaply but isn't their programming nothing short of erratic and hodgepodge-ish too? Not from the point of view of today's completist box set "check-off-the-discography-entries" buyers but from a decent coherent full-session programming angle?

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28 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

As for the above LPs, they will certianly have been good as appetizers and will have been worth it if picked up cheaply but isn't their programming nothing short of erratic and hodgepodge-ish too? Not from the point of view of today's completist box set "check-off-the-discography-entries" buyers but from a decent coherent full-session programming angle?

I think that was certainly an issue with some of them. Total throw-together-and-bash-'em-out stuff. But others were more solid statements I think. 

I'm interested in what has so far been left out. No Tadd Dameron. Nothing West Coast or Chicago. The fact is that I don't actually know whether there were any good early LPs for those sorts of artists.

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The first two series of Echoes Of An Era were prone to haphazardness, especially the first series, but eventually somebody realized that hey, we're going to be doing this for a while, maybe we better start adding vale or something...and so they started doing straight-up 2-Fers like everybody else.

Americans might lose sight of the fact that the Bird Savoys were always in print in some for or fashion (even if not always well-distributed), but the Dial sides never really had a proper release until that limited edition Warner Brothers box (and then "best-of 2-fer of master takes)that was supposed to accompany the supposed to be Richard Pryor Bird movie...so you either srpung for the Spotlite imports or you took what you could get from other sources.

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3 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

I think that was certainly an issue with some of them. Total throw-together-and-bash-'em-out stuff. But others were more solid statements I think. 

I'm interested in what has so far been left out. No Tadd Dameron. Nothing West Coast or Chicago. The fact is that I don't actually know whether there were any good early LPs for those sorts of artists.

West Coast, yeah, most of that music made it out on LP more or less from jump. 10" then 12"

This series (the ones with the ST- prefix kept the cream of the PJ crop in print until the latest 60s, and then, when they got remaindered, well into the early 70s.

https://www.discogs.com/label/830628-Jazz-Milestones-Series

Great record, better cover:

R-4232069-1441036100-3622.jpeg.jpg

Also, Liberty budget label sunset would be good for some Bud Shank stuff here and there. Of course, Shank was having "hit" records in the mid-60s, so they made them look like they weren't older than they were.

Dameron is trickier..but here: https://www.discogs.com/artist/251783-Tadd-Dameron

you will find a fair number of LPs that were in print when I began collecting in the early 1970s.

Blue Note consolidated it's prime stuff onto LPs somewhere in the 1950s. Prestige kept most of it in print, even if they did repackage it every few years.

The label that was a bear to get when I started was Savoy. Their OG LPs went really, alomost, "underground" once they became a primarily gospel label. So, yes, in print, and yes, send a dime(?) in coin or stamps and get a catalog, but...good luck.

But all that changed in the 70s. Design quirks aside, Savoy had about THE best reissue program of them all in thier 2-Fer LP series. They covered the shit out of that label, and not just jazz.

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, JSngry said:

But all that changed in the 70s. Design quirks aside, Savoy had about THE best reissue program of them all in thier 2-Fer LP series. They covered the shit out of that label, and not just jazz.

 

 

 

Thanks to my old friend Bob Porter.

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The man got The Ravens out there, hey. magnificent in a HUGE way. I dream of a chance for history to repeat itself only with the fuckups fixed, among them, put a Bird solo in this record. Or more to the point, no fuckup to fix, just...in order to form a more perfect union.

Those guys riffing behind Jimmy Ricks, SWING. and on the out chorus...swing on top of swing.

Ravens on a JATP package with Bird and Pres, just once, please future, please.

Not THAT crazy, really, didn't Jimmy Ricks do a bit of a stint with Basie? Yes!

https://aadl.org/N023_0387_005

As they say, no matter where you go, there you are.

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

West Coast, yeah, most of that music made it out on LP more or less from jump. 10" then 12"

This series (the ones with the ST- prefix kept the cream of the PJ crop in print until the latest 60s, and then, when they got remaindered, well into the early 70s.

https://www.discogs.com/label/830628-Jazz-Milestones-Series

Great record, better cover:

R-4232069-1441036100-3622.jpeg.jpg

Also, Liberty budget label sunset would be good for some Bud Shank stuff here and there. Of course, Shank was having "hit" records in the mid-60s, so they made them look like they weren't older than they were.

Dameron is trickier..but here: https://www.discogs.com/artist/251783-Tadd-Dameron

you will find a fair number of LPs that were in print when I began collecting in the early 1970s.

Blue Note consolidated it's prime stuff onto LPs somewhere in the 1950s. Prestige kept most of it in print, even if they did repackage it every few years.

The label that was a bear to get when I started was Savoy. Their OG LPs went really, alomost, "underground" once they became a primarily gospel label. So, yes, in print, and yes, send a dime(?) in coin or stamps and get a catalog, but...good luck.

But all that changed in the 70s. Design quirks aside, Savoy had about THE best reissue program of them all in thier 2-Fer LP series. They covered the shit out of that label, and not just jazz.

 

 

 

The original cover probably fueled numerous fantasy scenarios. Also, on the Liberty  cover, the tenorman looks more like Getz than Bill Perkins.

51N0T51B88L.jpg

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I do, because by the time I bought that record, that woman would have not looked my age, she would have looked like somebody I was watching on old movies.

Of course, Like the man said, I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. But even at that, Bill Perkins propelled my fantasies in ways and in directions that no earthly human could...our most profound imaginations have no gender, gender is for Earth.

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