Sundog Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 re: Ask the Ages, do you like rock music? I'm not saying it is rock music, just that it would help to consider it, along with jazz when listening. Sage advice I'm sure. I will keep that in mind upon my next attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Listen to Pharoah. Listen to Elvin. Yet more sage advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
take5 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Interesting thread. I absolutely adore this band- my favorite current jazz music. I have some old Holland record, Life Cycle, and then all the quintet and big band recordings starting with Prime Directive. Of course I've been meaning to get the earlier stuff as well and have never even heard his band with Steve Coleman Nevertheless, I find this music consistently engaging. I don't like most current jazz because it's either too "out there," and I don't know what's going on, or two traditionalist (why should I bother with people copping the older cats, when I can just listen to the older cats, who did it better, anyway?). DHQt is modern but grounded, elegant and adventurous. I can't say I'm a big fan of vibes per say, but I'll listen to any instrument if it's played well. Love the big band album, too. Unfortunately, have yet to see them live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
take5 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Interesting thread. I absolutely adore this band- my favorite current jazz music. I have some old Holland record, Life Cycle, and then all the quintet and big band recordings starting with Prime Directive. Of course I've been meaning to get the earlier stuff as well and have never even heard his band with Steve Coleman Nevertheless, I find this music consistently engaging. I don't like most current jazz because it's either too "out there," and I don't know what's going on, or two traditionalist (why should I bother with people copping the older cats, when I can just listen to the older cats, who did it better, anyway?). DHQt is modern but grounded, elegant and adventurous. I can't say I'm a big fan of vibes per say, but I'll listen to any instrument if it's played well. Love the big band album, too. Unfortunately, have yet to see them live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Now if I could only warm up to Ask The Ages. That's my current project. Listen to Pharoah. Listen to Elvin. Yes, but listen to Sharrock too! I can't say I find Tisziji Munoz terribly inspiring, to judge by Divine Radiance (great band, except for the leader & that guy on the keyboards... . Holland's OK but I've never had a stronger feeling about what I've heard than that: OK. Except for Conference of the Birds, which is a classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 (edited) re: Ask the Ages Try playing it out of order, the leadoff tune is probably the least 'accessible', other than that try counting the overdubbed Sonnys... Re: Dave Holland Totally respect as a player, love Conference of the Birds, like the Steve Coleman era, kinda underwhelmed by the more recent stuff but don't know as I'd quite call it "boring". Edited July 13, 2004 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 I'm surprised at all the negative response for what I consider one of the finest straight-ahead working groups in jazz today (granted, not a category with too many contenders, IMO). I think Extended Play is the best of the current band's output, and in a sense it makes the studio albums by this lineup relatively irrelevant, as most of the best compositions of the last several albums are included. I do find the big band disappointing--basically the fluidity and tension of the small group are weighed down and subsumed by the charts. Potter is fine, but Eubanks and Nelson are easily in the top ranks of their instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Not wishing to point fingers, someone said "Potter is fine, but Eubanks and Nelson are easily in the top ranks of their instruments. " That is a big reason I think (against hope) jazz is "over". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Not wishing to point fingers, someone said "Potter is fine, but Eubanks and Nelson are easily in the top ranks of their instruments. " That is a big reason I think (against hope) jazz is "over". Chuck, I'm tuning in late, please explain what you mean by that. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 20+ years ago, Bob Blumenthal told me that a friend said "jazz is not dead, it's just over". My instincts have told me for some time, when "about a generation dies out" we be done and we can cut up the cadaver. All kinds of social/political stuff has died and can not really be resurrected IMOO. Since the "repertory" aspect of jazz is much weaker than classical (recreations of improvised music vs notated music), bend over and KYAGB. Happy trails to you, until we meet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 20+ years ago, Bob Blumenthal told me that a friend said "jazz is not dead, it's just over". My instincts have told me for some time, when "about a generation dies out" we be done and we can cut up the cadaver. All kinds of social/political stuff has died and can not really be resurrected IMOO. Since the "repertory" aspect of jazz is much weaker than classical (recreations of improvised music vs notated music), bend over and KYAGB. Happy trails to you, until we meet again. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 I thought that was Frank Zappa, and the line was "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Yes, Zappa, but it's "funny" not "bad". Nice rockstar sneer to the quip, isn't there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Of course, "funny." I interviewed Zappa for Down Beat, circa 1968, by the side of a motel swimming pool with some of his band present, notably Don Preston, who seemed like a very nice guy. Lots of ominous/sometimes amusing tension between Zappa and his minions. Piece is in Ye Olde Forthcoming Book, which I'm now told is scheduled for November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Piece is in Ye Olde Forthcoming Book, which I'm now told is scheduled for November. Larry, this may not be the appropriate thread but since you mention the book, I have it on pre-order from Amazon France: http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300...6601586-1404105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Brownie -- Thanks for the order, but it looks like you'll have to wait a while. On the other hand, my experience so far has been that in anything that has to do with a book, the author is the last one to know -- it may arrive in August or September. BTW, while I'm getting a bit tired of the contents (having read the stuff over so many times for production/editing reasons), I'm really stoked about the cover. It's based on a grainy, black-and-white flash photo (a bit like a Weegee Graflex image) of bassist Nevin Wilson, Ira Sullivan (on trumpet and soloing, in shades and wearing a narrow-lapel pinstripe suit), and Johnny Griffin (he's listening very intently, horn cradled, also in shades and wearing a loose-weave "Who shot the couch?" sportscoat) in a Chicago club circa 1957 (maybe at a Monday offnight session at the Gate of Horn, maybe at the Pink Poodle). The vantage point is angled sharply upwards and it's taken from very close up, as though the photographer were sitting at a front table, about a foot or two from the edge of the raised bandstand and/or as though the musicians were right in your lap. The shot has a tremendous immediacy, I think, and powerfully conveys the aura of the times -- the sense that you and the players were to some degree swept up in a common enterprise. Besides, I could have been in that seat myself at just that time, listening to Sullivan and Griffin (most typically with a rhythm section of Jodie Christian, Victor Sproles, and Wilbur Campbell). A copy of the photo was passed on to me in 1977 by Joe Segal to illustrate an interview I'd done on Ira, who was coming back to town for the first time in maybe 15 years. Joe no longer has the original and doesn't know who took it (could have been just a snapshot, most probably not the work of a pro). Based on what I recall of Ira and Griffin's comings and goings at that time, 1957 would have been the latest possible time for it to be taken. I'll dare to launch a thread on the book when I'm sure that everything is nailed down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Jumpin' In arrived in the mail yesterday. Wow -- Steve Coleman is such a great saxophonist! (Nice quote of "Surrey with the Fringe on Top" on the title tune.) Time to dig out Extensions. I'll need to pick up more albums by this lineup, as well as other S Coleman albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I wish I'd had the chance to jump on this thread back when it was hot, but I too sold those CDs about a week after I got the promos. Just nothing to write home about, albeit 'well-done.' Interviewed Holland and he was an asshole, and had no interest in talking about anything he'd done prior to the current band, or any intellectual conversation. But he's getting a fair share of dough and recognition for beating dead horses, so... That tirade said, I love his solo and duo recordings from the 70s, as well as Conference of the Birds and Circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 i agree. not so much going on-i can see why these new DH albums are popular. they are clean yet not overtly commercial sounding so they are inviting while also giving the illusion of complexity so the listener can pat himself on the back and tap his foot. i have seen this band twice and i did actually fall alseep at birdland watching them play. just dozed off at my table. during a chris potter solo i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 i have seen this band twice and i did actually fall alseep at birdland watching them play. just dozed off at my table. during a chris potter solo i believe. ← So much for Chris Potter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 (edited) I am at a loss for words. Many of the people I know would quickly agree that Chris Potter is one of the best improvisers alive. You people seriously need to warm up to him, no matter how long it takes. It took me a while, and believe me, it is worth it. He has a unique sense of rhythm, and you can hear him weave in and out of time as he plays. Chris also builds pretty well, and plays some sick "out" lines. His harmonic and rhythmic senses are both very modern. Listen to the song "Heiroglyphs" on Unspoken, with Dave Holland and Jack Dejohnette (some of his best drumming ever is on that one track). Lift: Live at the Village Vanguard is a good Chris Potter CD to get once you start enjoying his playing. My friends and I joke about Robin or Dave having to follow a Potter solo. Seriously. He kills the rest of the group. Except possibly Nelson. Steve Nelson has been getting a lot of crap from you guys. That cat is SICK! I know this is all opinion, but WOW. How can anyone ignore someone of that caliber. I'm not trying to diss Robin or Dave. Robin is one of the greatest trombone players ever, but he isn't really what makes this group for me (except on the group improvs). Earlier today, I was listening to Prime Directive, and for some reason I had all the sound on my right speaker off. I was listening to a group improv, but Robin wasn't coming out. I thought it was just a Potter solo until I found out that the other speaker was off. I actually enjoyed it more as just a Potter solo. Dave Holland is great too. Amazing bass player. However, my bass player friend will agree with me that Chris Potter is what makes this group happenin' for us. You can't listen to the DHQ expecting a certain thing. Listen to it with an open mind. I swear, every time I listen to one of their albums like this, I like them better. They are very interactive, and their group improvisations are amazing. Listen to how they interact with each other. These cats are telepathic This is all obviously just opinion. I was truly surprised to find that people did not like the DHQ. What takes me a week to warm up to, I find most other jazz affociandos like almost immediately. Guess thats not so in this case. Edited June 27, 2005 by Beboptrumpeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 (edited) i have seen this band twice and i did actually fall alseep at birdland watching them play. just dozed off at my table. during a chris potter solo i believe. ← I can believe it if it was at this gig: Dave Holland Quintet Extended Play. Live at Birdland Billy Killson is the best player on it and now he has left the band ( or rather Holland asked him to leave )! I agree about Potter, but he in this band, can be overwelmed by the ponderous concept. Although I have respect for Steve Nelson, I hate his non- vibrato vibraphone sound, especially on this dud. There are times when his solos are going well but then he either looses his train of thought and plays something rather lame or just lapses into "vibes cliche" and leaves me frustrated. Edited June 27, 2005 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 I just don't get people who don't dig on Chris Potter.....it seriously baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Why? -- I don't hate him but I find him pretty pushy as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Why? -- I don't hate him but I find him pretty pushy as a player. ← What Nate said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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