Chuck Nessa Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Gee, looks like I ignored "what's his name" with the metal rimmed glasses and the curly locks. Dang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 I another thread someone recommended the Grawe/Braxton Okka recording. Tony plays the shit out of his clarinet on this disc. Amen to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 I did this poll with the precise aim of trying to target clarinetists on the scene today to check out. I should have thought of Sclavis. Don't know much about him nor have I heard him but if he hangs with a crowd like Dave Douglas - he's got to be worth hearing! I came upon Davern but wasn't sure he was alive. I prefer for this thread not to become a reminiscing point for talking about dead guys. Certainly I'd like to talk about them as influences but I already have countless records by Guiffre and Dodds and DeFranco and Tony Scott or at least have heard a lot of their stuff. I wish I had been able to see Guiffre. Probably one of the most underappreciated players of all time and a great composer as well, most notably of Four Brothers associated with Woody Herman whose band he wrote it for while in that historic sax section. We should have a Woody Herman thread. He was also an excellent clarinet player but now I am violating my own rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Oh, if we're also allowed to talk bass clarinet, I'm sure our friend D.D. would agree with my nomination of Hans Koch! Oh yes. But I would argue that bass clarinet is a different instrument. Well, in that case, I'll vote for Artie Shaw. I was wondering if someone would mention this. Yes - he is alive. He recieved a prestigious Smithson medal from the Smithsonian Institution in our nation's capital in a swap for two of his clarinets to their massive jazz holdings collections. He says that one of them is the clarinet he played on his smash hit, "Begin the Beguine." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Woah. Threadgill is a clarinetist? I thought he was primarily a saxophonist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) Jim, what's up with that Buddy DeFranco remark? On a good day, Buddy's as fine as he ever was and still, as always, very much an "in the now" improvisor. Check out his excellent duo album with Dave McKenna from 1997, "You Must Believe in Swing" (Concord). And I've heard him play at that level several times since then. I was forever traumatized as a college lad by seeing Defranco front the Jones-Lewis Minus Jones band back in 197?. The band (and most of the audience) was the raggy-looking assortment of jazz hippies that it was in those days (Dick Oates was in sandals and a dashiki, and John Mosca looked like John the Baptist), and here, after a few numbers on there own, comes Buddy DeFranco in Plaidus Maximus Polyertera and hair that indicated an endorsement form Vitalis rather than LeBlanc. They did a few bop-type things that the band obviously wasn't too keen on, and then took off on a "Afro"-ish modal number that was most unfortunate from a DeFrancoan standpoint. A kid remembers stuff like that. Really though, I couldn't understand why DeFranco was on the list and Scott wasn't, since both are still alive and, as far as I know, active. Scott's Philolgy sides, although inevitably containing moments of histonica, also contain some of the most daring and soulful, I think, readings of melodies that I've ever come across. Edited October 12, 2004 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 You don't mean DeFranco. You mean Eddie Daniels don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 No, I mean Buddy DeFranco. Definitely. This was right when Thad had split w/Mel and nobody was sure if it was temporary or permanent. I'm thinking 75-77, somewhere in there, not sure exactly when. DeFranco briefly went on tour w/the band as a "guest artist". Historically significant player, I know, but this mix was a definite case of "wrong place, wrong time". DeFranco wasn't all that far gone from having fronted the Glenn Miller band for more tahn a few years, and his jazz chops were not as au courant as they once were, to put it mildly. He looked like a used car salesman, and sounded decidedly "unhip". I know that's not a fiar assessment of his overall "place" in the music, but that's the first thing I think of when I hear "Buddy DeFranco" - a greasy haired used car salesman playing totally "square" clarinet in front of a band that did not seem to be thrilled to have him doing so. That's not "right". I know, but like I said, it was a powerful image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Jimmy Giuffre. Even if he is not playing any more. He (and his records) are still very alive! My vote, too, Brownie, since we are voting for "living" rather than "active." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Michael Moore Yeah, yeah, him too... you just made me want to dig out my copy of MONITOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Jim, your DeFranco meets the Jones/Lewis Band (minus Thad) encounter does sound traumatic, but I'd say that musically on most nights Buddy is hipper than Dick Oates and John Mosca put together (looks aren't everything). Do you know DeFranco's early '50s working quartet with Kenny Drew, Milt Hinton, and Blakey and the later quartet with Sonny Clark, Eugene Wright, and Bobby White (both recorded for Granz, the Clark quartet collected in that OOP Mosaic box)? Believe it or not, DeFranco and his undeniably hip sideman were of one mind musically. P.S. Don't know the Philology Tony Scott material, but the twiddly, piping, licks-driven Scott of the '50s (on Decca and RCA) usually gave me a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Gotta disagree with Larry about DeFranco and Scott. Buddy has always had this case of "running off at the fingers". I dig him, but so often he can be cold. The duo album with McKenna is indeed wonderful, though. Tony, on the other hand, does it for me more. He doesn't really have the chops anymore (no teeth will do that), but his ideas are wonderful and his tone was always amazing, moreso than Buddy's. Saw him and Buddy together every night for a week last year and Buddy was more or less on auto-pilot. Tony was the wild man. Re: the earlier post about the wide range of Louis Sclavis, I think Perry Robinson has been covering much of that for many years now. Funny thing is that Perry's the guy who introduced me to the music of Sclavis. Perry is a fan of every clarinetist out there. He's got to get credit for sheer perseverence in the face of screaming saxophones, electronics, fusion, huge collective improvisation ensembles, etc. - Perry has just kept on being himself. I mean, really, who can play with George Clinton and Pete Seeger, Gunter Hampel and Dave Brubeck, Archie Shepp and Klezmokum? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Tony, on the other hand, does it for me more. He doesn't really have the chops anymore (no teeth will do that), but his ideas are wonderful and his tone was always amazing, moreso than Buddy's. Saw him and Buddy together every night for a week last year and Buddy was more or less on auto-pilot. Tony was the wild man. Re: the earlier post about the wide range of Louis Sclavis, I think Perry Robinson has been covering much of that for many years now. Funny thing is that Perry's the guy who introduced me to the music of Sclavis. Perry is a fan of every clarinetist out there. He's got to get credit for sheer perseverence in the face of screaming saxophones, electronics, fusion, huge collective improvisation ensembles, etc. - Perry has just kept on being himself. I mean, really, who can play with George Clinton and Pete Seeger, Gunter Hampel and Dave Brubeck, Archie Shepp and Klezmokum? Mike Klezmokum? Sounds like a yiddish word for hallucinogen. You hit the nail on the head with DeFranco. I saw him about 2 years ago here in Pittsburgh with Terry Gibbs. Neither of these guys were coming up with anything. Gibbs is all showmanship - no serious hipness in his lines or phrasing. And DeFranco is "on autopilot." He plays the same goddamn half diminished lick on the 4 chord every chorus of the blues. He played the same solo about 5 times give or take a few notes and moving stuff around a little bit. Don Byron is my vote just so y'all know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Guess I should take a pass on the Scott-DeFranco comparison because I don't know the later Scott. But even though I can think of DeFranco performances that have that "running off at the fingers" feeling (I used to think of him that way, too), seems to me now that there are many more of them (from all periods) where the speed and cleverness (at the very least) of DeFranco's thought matches his technique. About the coldness (coolness and/or reserve, I'd say) -- beyond a certain point, isn't that a matter of temperament, and temperament of a sort that jazz has (or ought to make) room for? In fact, the DeFranco I don't care for usually is the DeFranco who tries to sound more excited than he (probably) is. Otherwise, I've learned to enjoy the DeFranco who's genuinely absorbed in thinking and playing his way around corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Jimmy Giuffre. Even if he is not playing any more. He (and his records) are still very alive! My vote, too, Brownie, since we are voting for "living" rather than "active." i vote for artie shaw! B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Ten thumbs up for Perry Robinson, man, my memory is a mess tonight. I had "Funk Dumpling" on Arista/Savoy lp when I was like 19 or 20... it took a few years for me to get Henry Grimes, however... not until that first comprehensive ESP reissue program on ZYX or whatever it was... Perry Robinson Lives! clem Mike, Didn't Perry & Henry meet up again last year? Have they played/recorded together since? My memory of the 100-hour broadcast has gotten a bit fuzzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) Buddy can play, no question. He's not a faker. And there are things out there where he really does some creative things harmonically that are his and not someone else's. I used to play in a quintet with a clarinetist and we did some of Buddy's tunes. But it seems like too often he's in situations where he goes into the comfort zone and stays there. Davern takes more chances, it seems to me. Thinking about some other names mentioned - I've never ever heard Harry Allen playing clarinet. Is this recorded? Ditto Loren Schoenberg - maybe just doubling in a big band section. For Loren's big band, he gets Ken Peplowski for any serious clarinet work. And actually, Ken Pep is someone I prefer on tenor. For me, his approach to tenor is much more exciting, in a restrained way. Perry and Henry have done much since last year. Tours of Europe, more radio appearances, week at Iridium this past July. See the HG discography. Mike Edited October 12, 2004 by Michael Fitzgerald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Amongst the currently active I gotta go with Perry Robinson, and not just 'cause he's the only one I've played with. But he did sound damn good when I was standing elbow to elbow with him getting blown off the stage! Heck of a nice guy too. If living is the test, Artie Shaw. All time? Sidney B, Johnny Dodds & Pee Wee are all up there for me, John Carter too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 No serious dis to DeFranco intended, Larry. I know his earlier work, and appreciate it much. It's just one of those "indelible images" things that I've yet to fully get over. And you should, if I may be so bold, check Scott's Philology stuff. Pretty damn breathtaking in more than a few spots, and not too much at all like his 50s stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) If anyone sees this post soon, tune in to WRCT 88.3 FM Pittsburgh on the web at 11 AM EST this morning: My Radio Show To listen to the mp3 stream on your computer (worldwide) see the top of the page when you get there and select either "High" or "Low" depending upon your bandwidth - it will ask where you want it to stream through (ie iTunes, realplayer or Windows Media Player). We are not a jazz station per se but my training is intended to prepare me to do a jazz show. I will be playing some good music. Focusing on clarinetists as inspired by this poll I started. I only have an hour, so I will try to get in as many as I can. I have quite a wide selection so I'll try not to let my biases control me. The station has almost every Anthony Braxton LP and CD ever released (same for Sun Ra and Cecil Taylor. Somebody here has a "free bias." Happy listening. Edited October 12, 2004 by cannonball-addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank m Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 I can't believe that Peplowski only got one vote. To my ears, he's better than Goodman ever was. I betcha it's because most of the voters here never heard him, on records or in person.. I know I never heard of a few of the appointed candidates on your list. What this means to me is that the jazz community , small to begin with, is so segmented within itself that one part doesn't even know whats going on outside its own limited preferences. How we gonna get new members if we don't develop at least a bit of curiousity about other types of jazz than our own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Bill Smith (Brubeck guy, right?) too "scholarly". Not on "The Riddle"! His technique, tone and intonation are perfect, but there's a lot of feeling, heart and warmth on that album, too. It's an all-time favorite of mine. And a lot of fun. The guys must have enjoyed recording it, and it shows. The clarinet solos are well constructed, and build to superb climaxes - recalling what Art Blakey used to say to his soloists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Of those on the list I am a big fan of Byron's music, but based solely on prowess on the clarinet I would have to go with Perry Robinson or Alvin Batiste. I have also heard some things I have thoroughly enjoyed from Michael Moore, Louis Sclavis, Gabrielle Mirabassi and a few others that I can not remember right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Didn't Perry & Henry meet up again last year? Have they played/recorded together since? My memory of the 100-hour broadcast has gotten a bit fuzzy. I have heard a couple of radio broadcasts of them together and they sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Giuffre will probably always be my favorite on clarinet. To my ears, very few so far have gotten more emotion out of the instrument. Sclavis seems to have a good balance of "technique" and "soul" -- from those actively recording today. Chris Speed and Rüdiger Carl also come to mind. I wish Denon/Savoy would have used the original cover for this reissue, always a favorite: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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