Favorite Trombonist

[Jim R]

I was just going to let this fade away without commenting any further (and I'm probably too late), but I think I should go ahead and put my $.03 in.

While I do understand the frustration that some have expressed here (and I do agree that too many threads started by relatively inexperienced posters can be a problem... I mean, just visit AAJ once in awhile...), I think some of these reactions are a bit harsh. Not so much Chuck... at least not THIS time. For one thing, c.a. didn't make the common bbs mistake of polling us on the "greatest" trombone player over 50. So, it's all a matter of perspective, just asking for people's opinions on their own personal favorites. Anybody who starts a poll of this type will: A) slant things toward their own musical taste and experience (and there's NOTHING WRONG with that); and B) leave off LOTS of names that could have (and even perhaps "should" have, although I'd argue that isn't the right way to look at it) been mentioned. NO BIG (FUCKING) WHOOP. Everybody states their opinions, laments the missing names, we all get a bit of information about names we're unfamiliar with (for whatever reason- maybe because we've been asleep, or maybe because we don't like that style of jazz), and then we move on, and hopefully have a nice dinner and a good night's sleep.

I thought c.a. took it all very well, BTW, so he still gets a from me.

[Jazzmoose]

I tend to "rewrite" the question in these things in my mind to "who's your favorite among these artists" rather than who's your favorite period. Saves wear and tear on the heart and all. That said, I must admit I had to pick 'other' this time around...

[Bill Nelson]

This is my first (and only) response to the neophyte thread-starting polls of cannonball-addict: COULD YOU COOL IT, DUDE?

Just get some recent issues of DownBeat with the critics and readers poll results. You'll have all your answers at your fingertips without bugging the rest of us.

[DrJ]

I'm with Jim R. I think if you look at Cannonball Addict's posts it's clear he's young and enthusiastic, not trying to denigrate any players or anything. So OK, he got a little carried away, but I think most of the veterans here are able to take these types of threads and educate everyone else, putting a little more meat on the bones of an otherwise potentially bankrupt line of discussion.

While I could also do without any more poll threads for a while, it seems to me the best reaction is either to add something deeper to the discussion or simply ignore them, not make a big deal about it.

[Brad]

Agreed but you have to wonder when he comes up with a line like this: "I am trying to get into Jackie McLean now but often I find him to be awfully repetitive - kind of like Dexter Gordon. Entirely lick-oriented - mostly simplistic licks."

[DrJ]

Well...yes, I can't say I even remotely agree with him on comments like that, and I personally think they betray a lack of deeper insight about the music. But then again, that may just be how he hears it right now, honestly. The way I look at it, he'll either a) be mortified some day when he's listened more and looks back on what he said or b) always feel that way (too bad, definitely HIS loss!).

Either way I have to admire him for not becoming a "dittohead" in response to the pasting he'll take around here!

[Chuck Nessa]

My post was meant to be constructive, not a flame.

[DrJ]

Actually I didn't take your comments as non-constructive at all Chuck - sorry, I think in reading it back my post was not very clear. I was making blanket statements about multiple posts, without enough precision.

Anyway, I just meant to say I am at least glad to see someone fired up about some good music. I would hate for him to stop contributing (and in the process, lose out on learning - heck, I know how much I have personally learned from such discussions over the past 7-8 years myself on the old BN boards and now here) because he felt some people were overly critical in their responses to his posts. I'm probably over-reacting, though. He seems to be taking it in the right spirit.

Edited December 6, 2004 by DrJ

[Jim R]

I hear you, Chuck. My post followed yours because we see this slightly differently, but the real motivation for me came from some of the other posts. I just don't get all the ire over something like this.

If people are "bugged" by these polls, there's always the option of not pointing and not clicking. I'd prefer to think that there's always the potential for something worthwhile to be found inside.

[clifford_thornton]

It was a toss-up for me between Rudd and Other... Moncur, Mangelsdorff, Christmann, Lewis, Rutherford et alia ... does Vinko Globokar still play or does he just compose now? Can't remember. So many boners, so little time to hear them all.

[Jazzmoose]

So many boners, so little time to hear them all.

I'm shocked; there are some lines even I won't touch...

[JSngry]

Prick up your ears!

[DrJ]

Booiingggg!

[cannonball-addict]

I'm with Jim R. I think if you look at Cannonball Addict's posts it's clear he's young and enthusiastic, not trying to denigrate any players or anything. So OK, he got a little carried away, but I think most of the veterans here are able to take these types of threads and educate everyone else, putting a little more meat on the bones of an otherwise potentially bankrupt line of discussion.

While I could also do without any more poll threads for a while, it seems to me the best reaction is either to add something deeper to the discussion or simply ignore them, not make a big deal about it.

This is exactly what I'm trying to do. Rather than get mad - say who you think other should be. The goddamn thing only lets me put ten people. In some senses, I like having the ability to control who is on the list at the beginning because it gives me a way to see what other people think of the people I would put in my top ten.

I forget who said it, but they were right when they said polls are bound to be based on the pollster's preferences. I have listened to what I have listened to. I wanted to know more. I wanted to do a poll. I couldn't have done one that had 10 choices, all being "other."

It is interesting and informative for me to hear what others on the board think of the field of trombone players that I laid out in MY poll (i.e. if forced to choose from the ones listed, I would choose X).

matt

P.S. Not that this is in the least bit related to trombone players, but to those who doubt my ears, I took some of your criticisms and dismissals to heart and decided to listen a little more to Dexter. In all honesty, I only had one CD - GO." I was stupidly (yes I know) basing my entire opinion of the guy on that one CD. Needless to say I don't like his playing on that one CD. So I took a bus ride to the local LP emporiums called Jerry's Records and bought a Dexter Gordon LP called Sophisticated Giant. I am grooving to it right now. I am thinking somewhat differently already. I really like his soprano playing on it. AND it has Mr. Bobby Hutcherson, whom I also condemned. I was trying to find something good by him but they only had some horrible stuff that looked terrible so I decided on some Donald Byrd with Gigi Gryce and Pepper Adams.

[Brad]

I don't mean this criticism but Dexter considered Go a classic but I know other listeners don't necessarily feel the same way. Blue Note put out a two cd set called The Classic Blue Note Recordings, Blue Note 80658 (catalogue number 73243 5 80658 2 4). That will give you a taste of Blue Note Dexter. You may also want to check out some of his SteepleChase work, mostly live but good nonetheless. But you may want to start with The Classic Blue Note recordings. It's quite a handy two cd set.

[couw]

just play Cheesecake 50 times in a row.

[Brad]

just play Cheesecake 50 times in a row.

Ahh, tongue in cheek. Probably that's where Dex's would have been if he had played it 50 times in a row.

[cannonball-addict]

I don't mean this criticism but Dexter considered Go a classic but I know other listeners don't necessarily feel the same way. Blue Note put out a two cd set called The Classic Blue Note Recordings, Blue Note 80658 (catalogue number 73243 5 80658 2 4). That will give you a taste of Blue Note Dexter. You may also want to check out some of his SteepleChase work, mostly live but good nonetheless. But you may want to start with The Classic Blue Note recordings. It's quite a handy two cd set.

I was going back over this thread. I picked up a box set called. Dexter Gordon: The Complete Blue Note 60's Sessions (6 discs) plus a nice thick booklet. It's very interesting and informative. I still ache at his articulations but his ideas are much broader on the whole than they are on GO.

I will be listening to this for a few weeks and let it sink in. Then we'll see. There's certainly a great many number of tunes on here that I know and love other renditions I've heard.

matt

[cannonball-addict]

I also picked up one I really dig. It is an LP reissue from 1995 called "Dexter Gordon - Master Takes The Savoy Recordings with Bud Powell Fats Navarro & Tadd Dameron." He doesn't sound anything like he does on the 60s stuff. His phrasing is much smoother. He sounds like Bird on the tenor, not as convincing as Sonny Stitt though.

matt

[AllenLowe]

I tend to agree about Dexter, whose playing I've never found interesting - depended, a bit, also, on how stoned he was at a particular session - Jackie McLean, on the other hand is a brilliant player. But as for trombone players, I don't care how dead he is, I'm going to put JIMMY KNEPPER in here - a great player, sweetheart of a guy, and everything else -

[Jazz Kat]

This thread makes me relise just how little I know about trombonists, but i picked my favorite one, Curtis Fuller.

[cannonball-addict]

This thread makes me relise just how little I know about trombonists, but i picked my favorite one, Curtis Fuller.

It was the same for me Jazz Kat until I discovered Woody Herman and started buying Woody Herman records/CDs left and right. You can learn so much of jazz' history be listening to this band which still exists today under the direction of saxophonist and Berklee professor Frank Tiberi.

[AllenLowe]

let's not forget Eddie Bert -

[Jazz Kat]

Oh, who's that other guy, J.J Johnson.

[AllenLowe]

well, he's dead, but that's OK -