Jazz Kat Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 The following is a quote by guitarist Pat Metheny, about his reactions towards the Ken Burns Jazz Documentary. "It's nice to know where your history came from, but jazz is about moving foward." Do you agree with that. I mean, it is nice when jazz moves on and is kept fresh but, I got the idea that Metheny doesn't want to listen to or play the likes of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I don't know how to explain it, but that quote just gets me going, and I practically lost all my repsect for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I don´t think it means he doesn't listen or pay respect to the past masters. I understandd this quote as meaning he doesn't want to imitate them (like the "young lions" movement in the 80's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Yeah you got good points. I was also thinking that he doesn't respect the kats who are playing bebop. Because bebop hasn't changed that much over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I completely agree with him. That you think it means he is dissing bebop or Coltrane says more about you than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I never said he was dissing bebop or Coltrane. I just thought he didn't have respect for the guys who are playing bebop now, in the present day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I never said he was dissing bebop or Coltrane. I just thought he didn't have respect for the guys who are playing bebop now, in the present day. The term "dis" is slang for "disrespect" so dissing and not having respect for something is one and the same. In any case, I don't know where you got the notion that because Metheny expects the music to evolve and move forward that he is somehow disrespecting Miles or Coltrane (two of the most progressive and forward thinking musicians of the genre). Both began in bebop but then pushed the music into different places, instead of just staying within the confines of bebop. In other words, they moved forward, just like Metheny said. If the music becomes stagnant, it will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 B3er, both Miles and Trane are dead and do not play be bop now, the present day. Just thought I'd point to some qualifiers in Jazz Kat's post (welcome to the board to him BTW), before you get into a hissie fit jumping up and down on things he never said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) JK it might be worth saying that Pat has a tremendous love of Miles and Trane, especially Miles. "Four and More" was the record that got Pat into jazz. And before you cast any more distaste for Metheny, please check out his new album "The Way Up" on January 25th, it is a monumental work in his catalog. Edited January 16, 2005 by CJ Shearn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 B3er, both Miles and Trane are dead and do not play be bop now, the present day. Just thought I'd point to some qualifiers in Jazz Kat's post (welcome to the board to him BTW), before you get into a hissie fit jumping up and down on things he never said. Um.... what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 The following is a quote by guitarist Pat Metheny, about his reactions towards the Ken Burns Jazz Documentary. I think he's talking about his reactions towards the Ken Burns Jazz Documentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 B3er, both Miles and Trane are dead and do not play be bop now, the present day. Just thought I'd point to some qualifiers in Jazz Kat's post (welcome to the board to him BTW), before you get into a hissie fit jumping up and down on things he never said. Um.... what are you talking about? I just thought he didn't have respect for the guys who are playing bebop now, in the present day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Do you agree with that. I mean, it is nice when jazz moves on and is kept fresh but, I got the idea that Metheny doesn't want to listen to or play the likes of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I don't know how to explain it, but that quote just gets me going, and I practically lost all my repsect for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I never said he was dissing bebop or Coltrane. I just thought he didn't have respect for the guys who are playing bebop now, in the present day. ... I don't know where you got the notion that because Metheny expects the music to evolve and move forward that he is somehow disrespecting Miles or Coltrane (two of the most progressive and forward thinking musicians of the genre). I never said he was dissing bebop or Coltrane. I just thought he didn't have respect for the guys who are playing bebop now, in the present day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 secret code word: "the likes of" as in: those dudes today who play like Miles/Trane played back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I enjoy the history of jazz. I enjoy Miles Davis and John Coltrane. With the exception of certain recordings here and there, my enjoyment of more recent jazz releases ends circa 1972. I tried to enjoy the jazz players of the 1980s but could never find a way to appreciate them much. My memory of the 1980s jazz players is that they were highly skilled in playing their instruments but had no real style of their own. I've watched the first four episodes of the Ken Burns 'Jazz' series. Keeping in mind that the series was written for and presented to the general public, not solely to a bunch of jazz aficionados, the 'Jazz' series has been, to me, quite good. Pat Metheny, to me, has been a shining light in the modern day of jazz. He was there in the 1980s and has been there ever since. Metheny is the only modern day jazz musician who still gets me to buy his records. To my ears, Metheny took all that came before him -- modernized it, popularized it, linked the past to the future, and created a style all his own. Metheny has kept the music moving forward while few others have had the same influence in recent years. I hear all kinds of 'new' things in Pat's music. I hear 'old' things as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 BTW, I don't think that Metheny's opinion, whether it means he disses today's be bop players or not, warrants one to lose all respect for the man. At least he has an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 secret code word: "the likes of" as in: those dudes today who play like Miles/Trane played back in the day. Okey dokey. After all is said and done and despite my ramblings, I agree with 7/4. Metheny was probably talking about the documentary and it's lack of including anything that happened after 1979. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Did Pat get mentioned in Ken Burns 'Jazz'? If he did't, he should have been. A fresh new sound in the middle of all that fusion, funk and rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 No, I don't believe there was any mention of Pat Metheny, probably the most popular jazz guitarist in the world (among other things). But then again, where any guitarists mentioned in that series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gslade Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 The following is a quote by guitarist Pat Metheny, about his reactions towards the Ken Burns Jazz Documentary. I think he's talking about his reactions towards the Ken Burns Jazz Documentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 yep, Pat's created a style of his own. If he wasn't a giant of jazz today then why would luminaries like Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker, Dave Holland, Roy Haynes, Jack DeJohnette, Kenny Garrett, all have him on their records or concert projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 yep, Pat's created a style of his own. If he wasn't a giant of jazz today then why would luminaries like Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker, Dave Holland, Roy Haynes, Jack DeJohnette, Kenny Garrett, all have him on their records or concert projects? Metheny, Pat 8/12/1954 Corea, Chick 6/12/1941 Hancock, Herbie 4/12/1940 Brecker, Michael 3/29/1949 Holland, Dave 10/1/1946 Haynes, Roy 3/13/1926 DeJohnette, Jack 8/9/1942 Garrett, Kenny 10/9/1960 Interesting list. Did any of these guys record with Metheny before he hired Brecker and DeJohnette for 80/81? (Except for Garrett!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 The following is a quote by guitarist Pat Metheny, about his reactions towards the Ken Burns Jazz Documentary. "It's nice to know where your history came from, but jazz is about moving foward." Do you agree with that. I mean, it is nice when jazz moves on and is kept fresh but, I got the idea that Metheny doesn't want to listen to or play the likes of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. I don't know how to explain it, but that quote just gets me going, and I practically lost all my repsect for him. What's the context of the quote? Where did it come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I think the quote makes perfect sense even if taken completely out of its original context/discussion, and I happen to totally agree with it. The only caveat is that "moving forward" is open to some interpretation. I think there's two flavors (basically - with infinite gradations within each): - Innovation - "dig the new breed" - Refinement (a la Louis Armstrong in his later career) of a particular sound or style until nothing but the essence remains So a younger player that might choose to play within a fairly well-circumscribed set of rules that might define a style (hard bop, whatever) that does the latter is still moving things forward in my view. The main point seems to me that it's pointless to simply repeat what's already been done over and over again. As Canadian pop/rocker Bruce Cockburn once said in a song, "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Brecker and Metheny worked together in the touring band for Joni Mitchell in 1979. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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