Name some Blue Note cds you find overrated

[sonnyhill]

Moncur's "Evolution" is worth it just for "the Coaster," which IMHO is one of the best BN tracks ever.

[tonym]

I am in agreement with Req here, in that for me it's got to be Whistle Stop by Kenny Dorham.

I love Dorham's playing normally, esp with Joe Henderson and Quiet Kenny is great.

I also am a big Mobley fan, moreso with the conventional hard swinging units he mostly favoured.

This may go some way to explain why i was quite dissappointed with this disc when i received it.

However, i just can't love Kenny Drew. His playing seems unbearably routine to me, much in the way Oscar Peterson's does.

Not an album i choose to put on often then!

Secondly, 'A Blowing Session' -- Johnny Griffin.

Now, if this didn't have Griffin on it AND all of the tunes weren't taken at such a brisk tempo. Then i would probably quite like this one.

Trade anyone?

[RDK]

I don't like either of the Cecil Taylors, though I keep giving them chances.

I also think Out To Lunch is my least favorite Dolphy album.

Ah, shit, I think my anti-AG bias is showing!

[connoisseur series500]

Wow, Great points made by everyone.

I dislike Dolphy in general and forgot to mention my distaste for "Out to Lunch" in particular.

How can anyone NOT like "Basra?" I guess there's no accounting for tastes. And "Page One" by Henderson is terrific. That's the recording debut for "Recorda Me."

Someone made the point about having high expectations and being disappointed. That describes me and "Davis Cup." Boy, was that a letdown!

I also like the point Vibes made about something hitting you later on. I didn't care for "Blues for Lou," when I first bought it. Now I like it.

Early Lee Morgan is not that good, but I do like "Candy."

I also cannot get into Johnny Griffin, "A Blowing Session." Maybe the musicians are just too busy trying to outdo each other. The result is a big flop.

I don't care for Cecil Taylor in general. His style is too thick and chaotic. I'm not a big Sam Rivers fan either, though I haven't yet heard "Fuschia..."

[danasgoodstuff]

I most be an overly tolerant soul 'cause I like pretty much all of the aforementioned disappointments just fine. OK, Out to Lunch is a little harsh, but I think that's the recording not the playing. And I know what y'all mean about overly high expectations: I'd loved Evolution and built up Some Other Stuff in my mind a little too much, I was disappointed at first but now it's fine on a moment to moment basis even if it still doesn't quite add up. I'm fine with Braith's diesal-racing-a-train-for-the-crossing tone. Undercurrent, Whistle Stop, OK by me. The only stuff on BN I really have prob's with are the Mizell productions, some of the stuff with voices, and George Lewis (love Sidney Bechet, Johnny Dodds is funky, but Lewis is an amatuer who just can't play in tune, and yes I know I should talk but...)

[shrugs]

FWIW, Out To Lunch is not a harsh recording.

[JSngry]

I'm not sure I understand the criteria for being "overrated". The "classic" Lion/Wolff BNs now exist as both vital music for now and as historical documents. How one responds to them as the former is purely a subjective matter, but theor place as the latter is pretty much a matter of record - some of the records were hugely influential (either immediately or over time, and some still maintain that influence today) and others just sorta exist as documents of their time. Either way, you can look around the jazz scene of the last 40-50 years and pretty much tell which are which. OUT TO LUNCH, for instance, might not appeal to some, but there's no denying that it was/is a record that had a lot of influence on certain circles of musicians. So is it "overrated" in a historical sense, or is it just not to some folks' liking? Either way, it's 40 years old. What happened as a result of it happened (and will probably continue to happen).

For me, "overrated" would be claiming a bit of historical importance that does not exist, like saying that EVOLUTION shook the world and caused a redirection of an entire school of jazz. It didn't. I think it's safe to say that it is an accurate, well produced and executed document of a player/composer that obviously intrigued some pretty "important" musicians. captured their imaginations at some point(s) in time, and dealt with some musical ideas that were not in general use in jazz at the time. Tha, I think, is an objective appraisal. Beyond that, it's mostly a matter of personal taste. Denying the historical "importance" of the music makes no more sense to me than overinflating it.

Face it folks - the music captured on all the Lion/Wolff BN albums is HISTORY now. It's no longer the sound of today, and although certain items in the catalog continue and will continue to be influential to jazz, they do so the same way that, for example, Beethoven does - as a "past standard" of excellence and triumph, an inspiration in both technique and spirit. How one feels about any particular item or items is a totally personal matter, as it should be. We have ABSOLUTELY no obligation to "like" something jsut because it's supposed to be "important". But denying or inflating something's place in history is another matter entirely, something that seems to me to require a willful disregard of what has already happened. revisionist history, if you like. That's something I'm just not into.

[Soul Stream]

So which ones don't you like Jsngry?

[shawn·m]

What Sngry said.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Davis Cup was a letdown for me. As was McLean's "Capuchin Swing."

Davis Cup was a letdown for me.

Damn Your Eyes!!!

As was McLean's "Capuchin Swing."

Damn Your Eyes Again!!!

[Soul Stream]

Shouldn't you be damning my ears!

[connoisseur series500]

So which ones don't you like Jsngry?

Yeah, Jim, which one's don't you like?

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

[BruceH]

I must admit, I really like Davis Cup a lot. Not something that would change the course of western music or anything, but just solid enjoyable stuff.

However....

I agree with the folks who admit to Moncur's sessions under his own name not doing much for them. I got the Mosaic Select and so far Evolution and his other album haven't set my world on fire, to be kind about it. I've gotten ten times as much enjoyment out of the Bennie Green Select already.

Thinking of Home isn't one of my favorite Mobley's either, but "overrated"? I'd say it was ignored until very recently. Something about the production could have been done differently, but I don't think anyone even now claims it as one of the great, definitive Blue Notes.

Dial 'S' For Sonny always seemed a bit below par for him, at least when compared with most of his other albums. Not terrible, mind you, but it doesn't quite live up to the stellar line-up. Perhaps it was one of those sessions cranked out purely for drug money? Who knows.

I like Dizzy Reece's album Comin' On, but haven't heard the others. Some time ago I listened to the old Freddie Redd Mosaic box and decided that his playing is a bit on the dull side.

One's tastes change over time, though. Back in the early 90's I came to the conclusion that the famed Baker/Mulligan quartet (for the most part) did little for me. But years later something clicked and I became a big fan. (Still not a fan of Baker's vocals though.) So you never know. I agree with the guy who said he doesn't get rid of CD's for that reason. I've had to re-buy enough to teach me that lesson many times over.

[Brad]

Since overrated may not be the correct work, I'll settle for don't like. There's very few that I don't like. From the 50s, probably none. I love the music from that period. From the 60s, there's more to choose from. The George Braith material I don't find appealing (sorry, Soul Stream). Also Don Wilkerson's Preach Brother. Although the other Don's are ok. Didn't care for Byrd's Slow Drag and I know it's heresy here, but I don't care for Andrew Hill. That's why I only have Grass Roots in my collection.

[SEK]

Confessions

I generally enjoy Blue Note Records, but:

I've never dug Lee Morgan's "Sidewinder", even though I am enamored with many of his other records, before and after, and with much of his playing in other contexts.

Though I enjoy Grant Green's playing on "Search for a New Land" and with Larry Young, I find his widely acclaimed "Idle Moments" to be mostly a snooze.

I've rarely been able to get interested in any records led by Hank Mobley, other than "Soul Station".

I find most of the Blue Note records made after Alfred Lion left, when "Blue Note Hit A New Note", to be relatively weak and uninteresting.

Except for his early work, I am not a Lou Donaldson enthusiast.

Donald Byrd's playing usually does not move me.

Most of Jimmy Smith's work also does not reach me.

...

[connoisseur series500]

Those are confessions that should be given to a priest!

Appreciate the honesty!

[Brad]

Well, that's some strong stuff and although I disagree with most of it, there's a strong kernel of truth to what SEK about what happened after Alfred Lion left the label. The output is just not as strong.

[Soul Stream]

The George Braith material I don't find appealing (sorry, Soul Stream).

That's O.K. You're not alone. Matter of fact, I think I'm in the distinct minority of people who consider themselves fans of Braith's work. However, that doesn't deter mine extreme, extreme love of his Blue Note recordings.

[scottb]

I got just one thing to say in response to SEKs post...

"Boys, get the rope !!!"

[Big Al]

More heresy.....

I never could get into Cool Struttin'.

As much as I dig Horace Silver, Song for My Father is another that does nothing for me.

I like Andrew Hill, even his more "out" dates, but Point of Departure just bores me to tears.

Ah well, to each his own.

[davef]

Art Blakey - Orgy in Rhythm - just not into records that are so heavily percussion-oriented, clearly a matter of personal taste only.

Jimmy Smith - Groovin' at Smalls Paradise - somehow I think the reissue of this would have been better without the bonus tracks, as it is I found it too long and monotoned. The Baby Grand albums are much better IMO.

Those two I had and sold. I'm not thrilled with "Some Other Stuff" but it's on the Moncur box anyway. Too far out for me.. which makes me glad I never acquired the Cecil Taylor ones, which would be way too far out.

[Kari S]

I must say I'm a little surprised at some of the "out of the closet" confessions people have shared here... I guess this is just one of those threads where eventually someone will come and say "Y'know, I really don't fancy taking them Giant Steps". Or "I'm not so keen on Kind Of Blue, either"... Jazz fans, right? Seriously speaking, there's so many sub-genres in jazz that it's ultimately a matter of personal taste.

That said, I share SEK's point of view on Mobley... Mustang, anyone?

[John L]

Although its not a Blue Note, "Giant Steps" drives home the point that Jim S. was making. Personally, it is one of my least favorite Coltrane albums to listen to. It just doesn't have a loose enough feel for me, and sometimes sounds like unfinished business that Trane et al took care of a few years down the road. On the other hand, it is unquestionably one of the most influential albums in jazz history, and therefore calling it "overrated" would be difficult.

[ralphie_boy]

There's a few that I own that leave me indifferent; the aforementioned PAGE ONE, as well as WHISTLE STOP. I'm also trying my best to like some of The Three Sounds sessions, but I really don't find them that interesting.