Jump to content

The Latest Chris-Hardbop Bout


Recommended Posts

Personally I object to those who carry BB conversations over into other venues such as this with an intent to do harm.

That said, it also seems a bit odd that a site like Amazon would actually surrender the name of a reviewer like this. How can Amazon be sure that there is some sort of vendeta at work here? Are they reviewing the back-n-forth at an AAJ thread -- none of which has anything to do with translating skills -- or perusing archived BN threads and studying comments issued by some guy known as "Hardbop"? How are they to know that by revealing the reviewers name an author might not then go off half-cocked and try to settle a score with someone who lives in the same city no less? I'm not implying that Chris would do that....but you can't tell me that there aren't as many petty, vindictive characters out there in the publishing world as there are in any other profession. On second thought....Chris, will you be bringing a 'corked' bat to his apartment... or just your 'ol Yastremski lefty black bat? ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 91
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Weizen, I don't think Amazon would reveal such information to me. I told my publisher who I thought the poster might be--they had it confirmed. The real question is why Amazon would accept a "review" that is nothing more than a childish, personal insult. They do have a screening process, but you'd never know it. Perhaps they're Republicans! :g

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from the Amazon site, in response to the paperback edition of my original book:

Needs Proofreader, July 31, 2001
* (one star)
Reviewer: A reader from New York,NY
The man cannot spell and has great trouble with the language. He should write in Danish, then employ a good tranlator.

Just thought I'd share the above with you--I immediately recognized Heaney's infantile touch, but didn't want to mention it until I had proof of authorship, as it were. Amazon has confirmed it and is removing it.

BTW Anyone know a good tranlator? :g

Sorry to see this, Chris, and thanks for sharing it.

It's important that we all see the kind of character we're dealing with here. :tdown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weizen, I don't think Amazon would reveal such information to me. I told my publisher who I thought the poster might be--they had it confirmed. The real question is why Amazon would accept a "review" that is nothing more than a childish, personal insult. They do have a screening process, but you'd never know it. Perhaps they're Republicans! :g

<<<<Perhaps they're Republicans! :g >>>>

I doubt they are.....but I'll send a coded message over to RNC headquarters and demand that they install an agent or two over there to personally assist you, Johnny, Alex or Nessa with any future publishing endeavors. :g

All I can say is that you're lucky that Amazon is only handing out stars for books ---- were I to direct them to 'grade' you on accuracy here on the political threads, you might find yourself receiving something like 1/8 of a star from them !! ;):P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I can say is that you're lucky that Amazon is only handing out stars for books ---- were I to direct them to 'grade' you on accuracy here on the political threads, you might find yourself receiving something like 1/8 of a star from them !!  ;)    :P

Coming from a habitual wearer of Bush blinders, that ought to boost my credibility rating.

:g

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

Chris:

Hardbop again? :(:(:(

AMAZON REVIEW

* (one star)

Dull, bizarre book about a great singer

November 13, 2003

Reviewer: A reader from United States

Unfortunately, this is a very poor book. The author plainly has many scores to settle with fellow critics and pays more attention to himself than the subject. Much of this book is shallow, much is just bizarre. It's a shame, as this singer deserves to have a very decent book written about her compelling legacy.

Some things never change... <_<

PS: finally I ordered it as an import in a local book store. I´ll pick it in a few days. Can´t wait!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the Amazon site in the UK, the Los Angeles Times quote is identified as being by Leonard Feather:

"The most devastating, provocative, and enlightening work of its kind ever contributed to the annals of jazz literature."

Feather, as we know, had a habit of settling scores; but not here. Perhaps it would have seemed too absurd.

As some restitution, before the comment is removed, I've voted against its usefulness on the Amazon.com site (it reads like one of HB's efforts); thankfully it has not spread to the UK version. It would be unethical to suggest that anyone else does the same...

Edited by Philip
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As some restitution, before the comment is removed, I've voted against its usefulness on the Amazon.com site (it reads like one of HB's efforts); thankfully it has not spread to the UK version. It would be unethical to suggest that anyone else does the same...

I´ll vote against this review, as well, though I haven´t read Chris´ book yet.

These comments full of venom and personal hates should be deleted! This stupid piece of poison has lowered Bessie´s average rating to *** out of *****.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I have not yet sought confirmation, but this has Heaney written all over it. Anyone reading it will have to wonder why there is such a discrepancy between that non-review and the very (perhaps overly) positive reviews of Leonard Feather, Whitney Balliett, et al. There is nothing wrong with unfavorable criticism, but this is nothing more than an infantile expression of resentment. The only reason I bring this sort of thing to the attention of Yale U. Press (and, through them, Amazon) is the fact that it unfairly brings the rating down.

If any of you, my fellow posters, read the book, I hope you will post your opinions--good or bad. Here's a recent review by someone who actually read the book:

Bessie By Chris Albertson
(Yale University Press)

Nearly seventy years after her death Bessie Smith remains a larger than life figure and despite the passage of time listening to her records is still a riveting experience. Like a number of artists of her stature and era Bessie's life has become shrouded in myth and misinformation that has accumulated ever since her tragic death in 1937. Chris Albertson aim with was to reveal Bessie "warts and all", filling in missing information, correcting myths and to that end has succeeded in producing a well researched, candid look at the Empress of the Blues.

"Bessie" was first published in 1971 and this new edition contains more details on Bessie's formative years, new interview material and a new chapter devoted to events and responses since the initial publication. Albertson is also known to Bessie fans from his liner notes which grace Columbia's five double CD's that comprise all of Bessie's recordings (he wrote the notes for the LP equivalent in the early 70's).

That Bessie sang the blues with such depth isn't surprising given her background. Both parents died at an early age and Bessie and her siblings were raised by their oldest sister Viola in a rough area of Chattanooga. Bessie and her brother Andrew performed in the streets and according to eyewitnesses was already a talented performer. Her entrance into show business came in 1912 when she joined the Moses Stokes company mainly as a dancer and a few years later was touring with Ma Rainey. The often told story of Rainey teaching Bessie how to sing the blues is quickly dispelled by Albertson who shows that Bessie was blessed with an innate talent. A 1913 account describes the teenaged Bessie this way: "...She obviously didn't know she was the artist she was. She didn't know how to dress-she just sang in her street clothes-but she was such a natural that could wreck anybody's shows."

In 1920 Mamie Smith recorded "Crazy Blues" selling over a hundred thousand copies and opened the record companies eyes to an entirely new market. The floodgates opened and record companies scrambled to cash in on the blues. Despite Bessie's reputation as first class blues singer and big draw she would have to wait two years before getting on record. She hit big right out of the gate with "Down Hearted Blues" selling 78,000 copies within six months. Bessie's follow ups continued to be huge sellers and her appearances caused near pandemonium wherever she toured. "Streets blocked, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds were unable to gain entrance..." was a typical report. As her reputation soared she rose from being known as the Queen of the blues to Empress of the blues.

Albertson does a fine job recounting Bessie's recordings and performances but what gives this biography a dimension not found in many blues biographies is a real feel for Bessie's personality. In this we owe an enormous debt to Ruby Walker a niece who toured with Bessie on and off for fifteen years and who's reminisces are the bedrock of this book. "...I don't think a meaningful biography of Bessie could have be written without tapping Ruby's extraordinary memory..." Albertson relates in the introduction. With Walker's remarkable memory and numerous other eyewittness accounts Albertson dispels the myths that have accumulated through the years. "Early writers", he writes, "tended to stereotype her as a big fat mama who drank a lot, fought like a dog, and sang like an angel." The truth, of course, is far more complex and Albertson portrays a well rounded artist (accomplished comedienne and dancer) who exuded an outward toughness but a good heart. Sure she was a superstar who wore ermine coats and diamond rings but she "still preferred eating pig's feet and drinking bad liquor." Albertson relates countless examples of Bessie's temper, her numerous affairs (both make and female), her stormy marriage and her troublesome siblings in great detail. Add to that the assertion that she was quite religious. Drummer Zutty Singleton puts an interesting spin on this seeming contradiction: "She always mentioned the Lord's name. That's why her blues seemed almost like hymns." In addition to her personality Albertson doesn't present Bessie in a vacuum and he does an admirable job putting Bessie in the context of her times.

By the time Bessie cut her immortal "Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out" in 1929 Bessie's brand of blues was in decline. A combination of the depression, the rise of talking movies and the collapse of the TOBA (Theater Owner's booking association- the main black theater circuit) all spelled trouble for Bessie. She was finally dropped by Columbia in 1931 (she recorded her swan song in 1933 under the supervision of John Hammond). She still remained popular and was beginning to change with the times, updating her style in accordance with the jazz age. It's likely Bessie would have weathered the changing times if not for her tragic death in an auto accident on a stretch of Route 61 in 1937. Much has been written about Bessie's death, much of it inaccurate, and Albertson devotes a short chapter that definitively sets the record straight.

Ruby Walker died in 1977 and most of the informants in this book have also passed so it is indeed fortunate that Albertson chose to write Bessie's biography when he did . For that reason plus Albertson's impressive research and unflagging candor, "Bessie" will remain the definitive statement on this extraordinary woman. -- Jeff Harris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the one hand, Hardbop can be an interesting guy, narrowminded as he is. I've had it out with him a number of times, and I finally got on his shit-list when I started a thread on AAJ specifically to ask if his tastes in Classical music were in any way similar to his tastes in jazz. We all know that jazz that Hardbop likes is (definitionally speaking) music that can be considered "jazz". And jazz that he doesn't like, isn't "jazz" at all, but rather is crap, or worse. I wanted to see if he thought 12-tone serial music was as evil as organ trios, and Miles in 1973, or even 1969.

I even tried to pick this 'fight' with him in a nice, joking, totally "kidding around" kind of way - so as not to be too hard on the guy. He wasn't having any of it (lord, it's not like the guy can laugh at himself - sheesh!!), and he sent me a PM saying I needed to get a fucking life.

Whatver. I deleted the thread, and haven't responded to any posts of his ever since. I once got him to try to define where the line was that he drew with Miles, and Ornette. He said he could sorta slightly get into Ornette's first OJC (Contemporary?) album (the one with piano), and everything by Miles up through late 1967 was OK -- but from 1968 on, it was all varying degrees of 'crap' to him. He never seemed to exactly think Andrew Hill was crap (rarely did he plug anything in, or play with anything plugged in), and Hill wasn't nearly as evil as Cecil Taylor, or most Sun Ra. Still, you could tell that he thought Hill was pretty substandard, since (of course), he doesn't really know how to swing.

But then didn't Hardbop appear to actually kinda like Wayne Shorter's recent live disc, "Footprints Live"???? What's up with that???? :o Or am I remembering that wrong.

99% of the time, Hardbop conformed to exactly what my expectations were of him. But every once in a blue moon, he's surprise me a little bit. And that was the ONLY reason I ever gave him the time of day. Well, that - and the fact that he liked Charles Tolliver quite a bit.

PS: On further thought, it was Hardbop's inability to look introspectively at his own tastes in music that really limits my interest in having much of a discussion with him. Like Wynton, Hardbop confuses his own opinions with "truth", and his own tastes with some universally objective definition of "quality". Ultimately I have little patience for those sorts of people.

Edited by Rooster_Ties
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...