BFT#25, disc #1 - discussion!!!

[brownie]

The Woody Shaw CDs grabbed my attention when RT's discs reached home. Now that I have given the BT 1 some listening, here are first impressions. I will be going back to some of the tracks which I still would like to identify. An excellent BFT disc...

1/2 Introduction music that sounds as being played by the same pianist.

There is the Debby waltz, could that be Gulda having some fun?

3 Have conflicting opinions on that one. When I gave this a quick hearing thought it might by Jeremy Pelt but it's not. Wynton? RT wouldn't dare...

4 I'm starting to like the compilation. Freedom Jazz Dance by a Rousish tenor sax.

5 The tenorsax player gave it away but I had to search throroughly to get to the truth. Track 7 from this one:

http://www.moviegrooves.co.uk/shop/blowup.htm

I'm not a big fan of the movie and have not returned to its soundtrack but this tune was one of the hits of the soundtrack.

6 Sounds so much like music from the 70s which I never really got into. There were several albums from the era that I tried to like (from the other Henderson to Norman Connors through post-Mwandish Herbies). I have not felt the urge to return to any of them since I stored them away.

7/8/9 I like those ones and want to explore the music again. Some very interesting trumpet players there.

10A kirkish interlude? But where is Rashaan?

11This sounded familiar but I had to relisten to it to make sure who the trumpet player was and then it made sense. A group I heard on several occasions when they played over here but only a couple of times with the trumpet player. Always thought the piano player was underrecorded on the instrument!

Track 7 from this album!

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:dikmikbkbb79

12 I like that piano track! The different rhythms and moods. Don't remember hearing this before. Will return to that one.

13 More Woody Shaw? Whoever play on that one get votes from here. Will be looking for the album when the results will be in.

14 Jackie McLean plus guitar? Could not figure that! Sounded pretty good but had to look beyong Jackie. Checked elsewhere and came up with this. Excellent composition from the leader which I have on a Swiss live album.

Opening track from this album:

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Watch%20Out:19...HNlYwNhcnRmZWF0

15 Great selection! And a some what difficult one to locate after I made sure who the tenor player was. Track 7 from this hard to find album:

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Lazuli:1921127...HNsawNtdXNpYw--

16 This ends strong. Lots of inspired trumpet playing throughout that disc 1.

Rooster obviously got fun out of choosing the various selections for this compilation. I liked what he came up with even if a couple of the tunes did not move me but they roused my interest.

Deep thanks!

[couw]

it took a while for this BFT to materialise on my doorstep, but it did in the end thanks to Tom & Tom.

een. Big ass orchestral workings of rather recent vintage with some winks to the Russians having a big day hunting small wild animals and other deeply rooted collective emotions. In the end it's all churning out a solo piano-piece that does not quite fit the same mood. It all sounds too much incidental and partial for me to form an opinion. The segue into track two is nice though it doesn't quite fit with one note too many somewhere.

twee. Smaltz for debbie. I have never been much enamoured by this piece, but hey, this is a nice rendition. I'd venture the guess that this is not by Mr Evans himself. Some crackling noise may mean this is a vinyl dub, though the overall cleanness makes me doubt some.

drie. The orchestral stuff is surely verra nice, with Zappa like vamps throwing out little lines and dances. Very nice, but not enough to carry the piece, which is surely intended to be taken care of by the twumpet. The latter is too smaltzy for my tastes though. This never seems to melt really, which is a pity and which also means I find it goes on a tad too long.

vier. Ttwanggg. Much more nicer. This has that cool short lived vibe also present on Cobham's Spectrum. Rouse jumping for some Scotch.

vijf. Joe Henderson fer sure with Herbie, right? Hey, it's Joe, what more do you want?

zes. More Herbie maybe, this time whipping some silly tones from his kitchen blender machinery. The trumpet gets on my nerves. Too busy and not much direction. But that's to be blamed on my ears fersure.

zeven. Why do these tunes always have to start with bass/horn unisono lines and why does the piano always need to jump in at the exact same point and with the exact same ploink? Other than that, this moves along like a full loaded truck with a fire-up-the ass rhythm section and a tenor that likes to be driven while driving. The piano is the only one that seems to be a bit out of place, the solo is nice enough again though. With the humming this all sounds very familiar.

acht. Sounds like Richard Williams on trumpet and the tenor sure rings some bells as well. This is very endearing with all the edges and little pointy things sticking out all over. Very nice.

negen. Must be Cherry, but otherwise no clue. Nice.

tien. race with time and emit some ad lib sounds please; Rah of course with Hancock, Haynes and Vernon Martin

elf. Shaw on trumpet methinks. Lots of energy here, bang bang over done with (pity). Great tune.

twaalf. pling ploing. Some of this Solalistic playing is much to my liking, but this never really takes off somehow. And then the yelling starts. What's up with that!?!

dertien. More Woody yes? Love the big bass drum and the china crash keghkech.

veertien. Jackie Mac with twangy geetarrs and a trumpeteer? Nah! This has a nice nice vibe, lots of energy, but less of a voice somehow. Good stuff anyhoo.

vijftien. Sam Reevers methinks maybe. Never heard this. It's nice!

zestien. This sounds much like Charles Tolliver, but who else is there? Izzat Tony? Piano sounds familiar too. All in all a bit wandering in spots but that's part of the game here and this is verra nice.

Fenx much for the journey.

[RDK]

Sorry for the delayed response. I’ve listen to the discs several times over the last two weeks, but haven’t had the time to make any cogent comments (and now’s no exception ). Honestly, most if not all of these have me stumped. The disc is heavy on (what seems to me) early 70’s, post-Bitches Brew influences, and that’s not really my strength. Overall, I’ve enjoyed the disc (though I’m sure I like disc 2 better), but few of the tracks really stand out as “must haves” for me. Still, a lot of them are interesting and I have no clue as to what/who most of them are.

1. A movie theme?

2. Waltz for Debby. Lovely tune – Evans’ finest imo - but dunno by who.

3. Odd, but okay. Doesn’t knock me out. Trumpet sounds almost like Miles. Hmm – maybe from Aura (which I have on an old cassette somewhere but haven’t listened to in a decade)?

4. Funkier and more entertaining at least than trk 3. Has that early 70’s electro-jamming sound, but overall not my thing.

5. Sounds like a jazz version of the Odd Couple theme. No, not that, of course, but jaunty and loping in that style. Best track so far.

6. Again 70s and very electric. Weird processed trumpet. Eddie Henderson perhaps? I dig this but only in doses. Too short – why the fade-out?

7. A pleasant change-of-pace. A typical quartet. This one seemed rather too conventional and safe the first time I heard it, but it’s growing on me. Still can’t i.d. anyone though, though the pianist sounds familiar. Hmm – could that be Wayne Shorter?

8. More modal. I like this style much more, and the playing is good, though the tune itself leaves me a bit indifferent. Rooster sure likes his trumpets…

9. Oh yeah, I know this one. That’s uh, that’s… much too brief. I dunno? Lester Bowie maybe?

10. That chaotic opening gets me out of my seat. No friggin’ clue.

11. Again, with the more straight-ahead trumpet blowing. Okay, but no clue and again a quick fade.

12. This tune sounds familiar, at least the opening statement. But it’s very loose and stalls rather quickly for me. That bass solo (which I usually dig) kills it for me.

13. No idea. Maybe Woody Shaw?

14. Love the wacka-wacka 70’s porn music groove that opens this, but don’t care for the tune itself all that much. I prefer the sound of the guitar to that of the horns. Beyond that, no idea.

15. A refreshing change from the 70s, at least in style if not chronology. The old school still kills. Like the guitar accompaniment to the tenor sax. But I’m no good at identifying players.

16. I really dig the opening with the bass solo, then the drums and piano entering over it. Again with the muted/processed trumpet, but I really like this one. Late 60’s-early 70’s Miles’ influence is all over this disc, but I think he only appears on trk 3 if that is indeed Aura. This one gets a bit freer later on, especially in the piano solo. No idea, but I like it.

[RDK]

As far as track #1 goes, it'd be interesting for people to take a stab at when they think it might have been composed (what year, or decade).  The key is in the 2nd-half of the solo-piano interlude part (starting around the 1:05 mark).

Or maybe just answering the question, who does it sound like?? 

←

That doesn't help me a whole bunch. The orchestral part sounds "timeless," though now I'm wondering if the end of the piano section turns into Waltz for Debby rather than just being edited too close to the cut. In that case, I'd say early 60s.

[randyhersom]

This set seems to be about fusion in the best and most organic sense of the word.

Disc 1

1-1 I'm going to guess that this is Andre Previn conducting a late Romantic piano concerto ...

1-2 ... segueing into Andre Previn, solo jazz piano

1-3 is this Wynton Marsalis - All Rise?

1-4 Something off Joe Farrell - Moon Germs?

1-5 Miles with Wayne and Herbie?

1-6 Electric Miles

1-7 More Wayne Shorter?

1-8 Kind of an inside-outside vibe here. Ted Curson?

1-9 Solo trumpet isn't done very often. Could be 50s or 60s, or a later player paying tribute. My wild guess is Leo Smith because he did a solo album, Kulture Jazz, but this isn't the style he commonly plays in.

1-10 Art Ensemble of Chicago

1-11 Blue Note era McCoy Tyner?

1-12 Piano trio is wide ranging stylistically, with an unusual vocal contribution at the end. Don Pullen?

1-13 Trumpet trios were very hard to find before the 80s. Roy Campbell? Once again, not as "out" as I'd expect for this player.

1-14 A Blue Note style with some percolating wah-wah guitar added in. Gary Bartz?

1-15 Nice. I'm going with Sonny Rollins against my better judgement.

1-16 Reminds me of Herbie Hancock's The Egg from Empyrean Isles. Whether I'm right or not, I love it.

[randyhersom]

I liked track 3 - fire away

[cannonball-addict]

I really think Track 3 is something that Terence Blanchard scored and plays on. I really didn't think it was Wynton at all. Just not the right sound. It is an intriguing piece but its substance is mostly at the surface. I get the build-up but I feel like it was for naught. You never get beyond the mindless chromaticizing. The solo cadenza around 5:09 continuing through 5:47 is the closest it gets to really interesting music.

Matt

p.s. I am getting to these discs really late. I can't sleep and I figure this is as good as anything else I can do right now. I am depriving myself of TV so internet is it. i miss posting about bft's. thanks rooster for the interesting music.

[Durium]

I'd love to join the discussion, but ..... sorry. I still haven't seen BFT # 25

[mmilovan]

I'd love to join the discussion, but ..... sorry. I still haven't seen BFT # 25

←

It's the same situation with me, I'm afraid... I haven't received BFT #25 untill today, unfortionatelly...

[Durium]

I received my copies today.

Thanks !!

Edited May 27, 2005 by Durium

[mikeweil]

I have to apologize for being that late, but my first listening session into these discs was interrupted by falling asleep after track 8, and I hardly found the time to continue due to all kinds of work being thrown at me without warning, and never again found myself in the proper mood for much of the music. I'm into a somewhat difficult situation at the time, old things gone, new not really working so far, and rarely find the time and relaxation to listen to any music at all. This is not your fault, Rooster, the sequencing is admirable, and the choices are inspiring.

These are my first thoughts (worked over just a little bit):

# 1: ... and I was thinking whether I could include a "classical" track! Starts out like an early 20th century piece, between Ravel, MacDowell, and Gershwin, but I have no idea who wrote this.

# 2: Didn't notice the edit at first listen, very nice idea, "Waltz for Debby", but not Bill Evans. Played with a very "classical" attitude, well done, but not my cup of tea.

#3: Another perfect segue into the next song. Milesian trumpet, but not Miles. Technically very assured player, and a very nice composition. I love orchestral pieces with a rhythmic attitude like this. Great thematic material, would like to know who/what this is. Something I would buy. Terence Blanchard? Not Wynton. Like it! A lot! My favourite track on disc 1.

# 4: Yeah! Son of Freedom Jazz Dance. I love this type of thing, except for the boney bass drum sound. Very nice cool sax here. Guitarist leaves me indifferent. Would prefer the drummer to get more different colors and dynamic nuances from his snare drum. He and the bassist are not really together. Like the theme best here.

# 5: Know that one - from a movie of my top favourite director. Saw it countless times, have the DVD. The saxist should be easily recognizable - too bad they faded out once they had enough music for the scene. He was a lot into late Trane here. Great. (link)

# 6: Son of Bitches Brew ... Know that one too - liked it from the first day I heard it on the radio and bought it soon after. This pool of musicians played the most satisfying electric/acoustic fusion, IMHO. As of now I like this better than Bitches Brew. (link)

# 7: Somehow this tenor sounds familiar. Hmm ... Dewey Redman came to my mind first, but that slightly flat sound and vibrato are not his. Billy Higgins, for sure. Some ECM Charles Lloyd CD? Don't like the pianist, I prefer them in or out, this borderline playing rarely works for my taste. Steve Kuhn comes to mind, who had me react similarly when I first heard him. Nice neo-bop theme, but why didn't they keep the fine brush groove - the solos could be from any other piece.

# 8: Nice, but one of the pieces beneath me right now. I heard a lot of this in the 1970's, but grew somewhat tired of it. I probably know some of these guys. A little too long for what they get from it. Don't like the flat tenor sound. But the idea to have them improvise together is nice - curious about the trumpet player. Rooster likes trumpet a lot, it seems ....

# 9: Don't know why, but when I noticed this was solo trumpet I felt the urge to rate this a lot higher. Takes a lot of courage to play trumpet and improvise without rhythm, which he has - both courage and feel for time and rhythm. Like the way he paces himself and toys with the time, but still keeps the beat.

# 10: NMCOT - too short for comment. Don't know what they wanna say with it.

# 11: Oooh - fast Traneish hard bop - Freddie Hubbard? Junior Cook? Or rather that younger tenor guy that was with Freddie in the 1990's? Javon Jackson? This exhausts me.

# 12: Puckish theme - son of Matrix. Don't get much from this right now, although their interaction is great. They really listen to each other.

# 13: More Hubbardish trumpet - Woody Shaw? Courageous. Like this bass drum much better, although many will probably find it obstrusive, but that's the way it should sound, with a little tone. That China ride is a little obtrusive.

# 14: Hhmmm ... can't identify any of the players here. Like the way they break up the chorusses at the beginning. Too bad they didn't continue that way. The alto cat has listened a lot to Jackie Mac.

# 15: Is this another slightly flat saxist or do I need some ear examination? No idea who this is. So relaxed it is almost sleepy - and lively at the same time. No idea who they are. Electric bass? Acoustic would fit better here, and a less bangy drummer.

# 16: The theme that bassist plays reminds me strongly of some horns theme I heard/had many years ago. Again, not in the mood for this right now.

Thanks Rooster, for the care you took in sequencing this CD - very good job!

[mikeweil]

Now when are we going to get some answers?

[.:.impossible]

I'm wondering the same thing. I've had my copies for a while, but I think others didn't get there's until recently. There are definitely a few things that I will want to look into further!

[chuckyd4]

Okay, I had little idea about a lot of this stuff, other than players.... I liked the mix fairly well, though - I love the development of it.

Track 1/Track 2 - I hope I'm not off base putting these two together, but they seem to go as a piece for some reason. I definitely heard "Waltz for Debby" in there, after the lush intro of Track 1. Doesn't sound at all like Evans to me, though. I understand why you would start the test with something like this, but it's not really my cup of tea. I would need to hear more to make a better decision.

Track 3 - The strings and the rolling, repeated trumpet line seem designed to really get you pumped up for this track, but that's just the problem for me - it seems way too "designed" to really get me into it. Is this through-composed (including the trumpet part)? Not even worth guessing, cause it could be Wynton, Terence Blanchard or one of those guys, but I rarely if ever listen to them. Maybe someone I love normally, but this one would be a misfire for me. To me that first melodic piece on trumpet is not strong enough to keep bringing back time and time again... would have liked more development of it.

Track 4 - Okay, now we're talking. Sounds like Gabor Szabo from those Chico Hamilton Impulse dates to me - but that's not Chico. This is a really killer groove, though, I could listen to this for like 30 minutes. The tenor sounds super familiar - the pithy high notes and then the way he descends across a phrase remind me of Charlie Rouse (?!?). Clearly never heard this detour in his career if it's him, though. I will absolutely seek this record out though when I find out what it is.

Track 5 - AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! I swear to god I have this in my collection, but I checked all the Joe Henderson and can't for the life of me figure out what album it is (must be something where he's not the leader, but I don't have the energy to look through all those right now). But that bass line is the kind of thing that makes me want to take up the bass again - you could just sit back and play that for much longer than the 3 minutes-something included here. Brilliant. This test is really starting to cook.

Track 6 - The obvious choice would be something from Miles' electric 70's period... maybe something post-Bitches Brew? I dig it... it's like, groovy, man. Trees, trees, anybody got some trees? Holla atcha boy. Holy shit, that hi hat groove is awesome... I love the way the bass locks onto that figure in and around the hi hat-percussion beat.

Track 7 - A little sad I couldn't positively ID the tenor player here, but I really like the dynamics in this piece... one of those slow burners that never really all-out cooks, but keeps a tough smoldering intensity. Sounds like maybe it comes off an OOP Lp? This is that period in post-bop jazz that I could just listen to forever... I never get tired of this feel in my music. The head's a little "meh," but the solos and build-up are top notch. Maybe Herbie Hancock on piano?

Track 8 - Another one that I feel absolutely positive that I have in my record collection, but I couldn't for the life of me find it. It's really gonna bother me until I get an answer, too. Sounds a bit like Charles Tolliver to me - one of the great underrated trumpeter/composers... sounds a lot like the stuff on his criminally underrated Strata East lps. Only complaint here is that I wish the drummer would have pulled back more during the piano solo (kind of reminds me of Andrew Hill, who always needs some delicateness in his drummers, I think).

Track 9 - Solo trumpet? Reminds me a lot of Don Cherry. That kind of improvising where the rhythmic feel and choice of notes develops naturally from the first melodic line. Very cool stuff, and if this is an entire album of this solo stuff, I'd like to hear it. I can only imagine how hard it is to fly high totally unaccompanied on trumpet.

Track 10 - Whoa, that's gotta be Rahsaan, man, based on the grunt and the overall tone of the horns.... no idea which disc this is from, and not sure the need to include it here, but hey! Rahsaan's always a cool idea. Would have liked a longer piece though... not much to say about 22 seconds!

Track 11 - Probably Woody Shaw or one of those guys... not that good at ID'ing trumpet players blind. The tenor has a bit of a Booker Ervin twist-off to the end of his notes, but I don't think it's him. I'll quote myself from Track 7 here: "This is that period in post-bop jazz that I could just listen to forever... I never get tired of this feel in my music."

Track 12 - Again, one that sounds aggravatingly familiar, at least the melody. I would say Chick Corea, from his Circle days, or just thereafter, but I don't have much of it, so it come up when I looked through my Corea collection. I have to be in a very particular mood to dig a piece like this, and I'm not so much right now. Don't feel like this is the best example of interplay these guys are capable of... sure they play in and out of a couple different moods, but it seems a little contrived to me here. Rather just here them go totally free... hear more close interplay without the structure to fall back to.

Track 13 - You've got me on this one... but it's funny, based on Track 9, to hear how many more options the drums allow this trumpet player. He's already got the beat laid out for him, so listen to how he concentrates on all kinds of other things. Though he seems to have a very different style from track 9 anyway, so I would be interested to hear a totally solo piece for comparison. This would have been awesome if it was just an intro, and then a whole band burst in absolutely burning... the trumpet player sounds capable of some awesome stuff.

Track 14 - Ah, good callback on some of the earlier tracks - back in that same mode. I don't know why, but half the trumpeters on here sound exactly like Shaw or Tolliver to me. Oh crap, hold on - Jackie Mac, my lord. No idea which album this is. Actually, it sounds more like the kind of group Gary Bartz would play in, and despite the almost exact tone, some of the note choices just don't sound like Jackie to me. Who knows. I like this track, but don't feel like it's extraordinary... don't know why, maybe my ears are just getting tired. Sounds like something I would like to own, in any case.

Track 15 - Whoa, way to scale it back. Sounds like "Beatrice" era Sam Rivers. One guy I've seen in concert plenty of times, and could see dozens more. I love some of his more free stuff, but it's so awesome when he pulls back and just plays a gorgeous, mid-tempo balladish piece like this. Is that him? I think so, crap I don't know. The intro sounded so much like him, but it would be so rare to hear him just calm down like this for a whole tune. Also, no idea what backing band this could possibly be. In any case, good straight ahead track.

Track 16 - Oh man, this track is gonna make me tired... or anxious... or some combination. Too much sinister energy, but in a good way. You really love these tracks with the repeating bass ostinato and the super twitchy cymbal work, eh? That's cool, I do too. And clearly a trumpet connoisseur... More so than me, I feel, even though I love this stuff. Really, my brain isn't working well enough to put a positive ID on this one without embarrassing myself, but I think it's the perfect track to close it out... brings a lot of the previous stuff together in one track - the avantish hard bop trumpet of many of the tracks, the dense piano work of some of the tracks, and that underlying groove of the electro-funk tracks throughout. Nice stuff... I'd be interested to pick this one up.

Overall, a really cool mix - I thought it was put together with a lot of thought and care, and seems to be primarily stuff I don't have, but which is right up my alley. I'll eagerly be checking for the answers!

[chuckyd4]

*ahem*

[Noj]

Blindfold Test #25 Disc One

Compiled by Rooster Ties

At first listen I thought tracks 1, 2, and 3 were one composition! Weird!

1. Dramatic intro! Very cinematic. Couldn't say.

2. Delicate piano, nice sensitive touch. No idea.

3. Trumpet reminds me of Johnny Coles on Herbie Hancock's "Tell Me A Bedtime Story." More movie soundtrack stuff?

4. Ooooh, smokin' intro. Funky as hell. I love that refrain with the sax and guitar in unison. No names are coming to mind.

5. DAMN, it just gets better. As funky as a bass line gets. My favorite so far, which is saying something because this is all my kind of stuff! Gary Bartz-ish. Hey! Is that how it really ends, or was that some fancy Rooster editing?

6. Eddie Henderson-like. Very funky. Me likey.

7. Reminds me of some Pete LaRoca Sims tracks. I dig it!

8. Almost a slowed-down "Night In Tunisia." Or Eddie Gale's "Ghetto Summertime." Nice!

9. Whoa! What happened? A soloing trumpet, then all of a sudden all hell broke loose, and just as suddenly gone! No idea who.

10. See 9, I thought 9 & 10 were one track. Sneaky!

11. Makes me think of Freddie Hubbard Blue Note stuff. Frantic pace, and everyone's up to the task. I really like the piano. Another Rooster edit?

12. Off into outer space momentarily, much more traditional for a spell, then back out again. Sun Ra's music has a similar vibe to my ears. I'm lost at times in this composition, wondering what they're going for. Spooky vocals, a little scary. No guess.

13. How 'bout the chops on this trumpeter? Crisp skills! Not sure what he's playing, but it doesn't matter since whatever it is, he's playing well. Composition-less improvisation, I suppose. I simply don't know who would play this way. Don Cherry?

14. Bring the FUNK back! Yeah! Love this one. Can't say I know who it is. Like 5, it comes across as Bartz-ish to me, or even similar to some 70s Blakey live dates.

15. Bluesy and relaxed, smooth quality. Ben Webster comes to mind. Just plain good, nothing to complain about.

16. Tom, you've really broke out the bass lines for this test. Strange tone from the trumpet which doesn't ring any bells for me name-wise. I'd lean toward guessing Tom Harrell, remembering the song "The Call." These guys are definitely going somewhere with this song, not letting it follow the usual paths.