AOTW May 22nd: 'Una Mas'

[sidewinder]

Just a heads up that the AOTW selection for the week of May 22nd will be Kenny Dorham's Blue Note Classic 'Una Mas'

An absolutely stellar line up of Kenny Dorham, Joe Henderson, Herbie Hancock and a very young Tony Williams. Recorded by RVG on April 1st 1963. The first of several Blue Note collaborations between the front line of Dorham and Henderson, in what would be a truly legendary partnership.

I thought it was about time that KD had an AOW nomination so here it is ! This one is also easy to get hold of on CD so should (hopefully) generate a bit of comment.

Hope that this meets with general satisfaction - I'll post a few thoughts about the session early next week. In addition, I'll open this thread to discussion of Kenny Dorham's Blue Note work in general.

Edited May 22, 2005 by sidewinder

[tonym]

This is about due for a re-listen.

Good choice. It'll be getting some play later.

[JSngry]

A fine choice!

[Guy Berger]

Nice choice. Maybe someone can convince me to change my belief that despite the incredible personnel, this album is more or less interchangeable with lots of solid BN dates from around the same time.

Guy

[mikeweil]

Was that one RVG'd? If so, how does the sound compare to the earlier US CD?

[neveronfriday]

Hm.

I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of this one, but then I'm not such a big fan of as many Blue Note recordings as people are on this board. This session lacks character; there isn't much here to distinguish it from a pile of other recordings like it. It's solid, but that's it.

[marcello]

This is the one that, on the title track, Tony Williams plays a relenless Hi Hat beat, that is pretty amazing, chops wise.

[sidewinder]

Nice to see this one already generating some differering opinions from the board members !

Mike - This one did come out as a 'domestic' RVG. The 'Bards' don't seem to stock it but it's available on Amazon.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I quite enjoy this, but Tony Williams and Herbie Hancock (as so often) leave me cold.

That said, the more I listen to Dorham, the more I appreciate his things. I think he has a beautiful tone, and a very lyrical sense of melody. I also think he has a very personal way of swinging eigth notes, which is appealing.

Over the last few days, I've been listening to the Cafe Bohemia material, so it'll be good to have another listen to this.

I'm tempted to disagree with the comment that this is largely interchangeable with other BN fare of the period. Perhaps it is the most generic sounding of his BN sides, but I think as a group they stand out quite nicely as a body of work.

I also like KD's compositions - 'Escapade' from 'Our Thing' is a particular favourite.

[tonym]

That said, the more I listen to Dorham, the more I appreciate his things. I think he has a beautiful tone, and a very lyrical sense of melody. I also think he has a very personal way of swinging eigth notes, which is appealing.

.

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Is that because his attack isn't as pronounced as some other trumpeters? I know what you mean, I just can't visualise it without listening to him play.

I don't think it's his timing as such, more, like I say, his attack.

[Alexander Hawkins]

That said, the more I listen to Dorham, the more I appreciate his things. I think he has a beautiful tone, and a very lyrical sense of melody. I also think he has a very personal way of swinging eigth notes, which is appealing.

.

←

Is that because his attack isn't as pronounced as some other trumpeters? I know what you mean, I just can't visualise it without listening to him play.

I don't think it's his timing as such, more, like I say, his attack.

←

Attack and articulation as well, certainly...but (I'm also not in a position to listen just now as I write!) he also deviates from the standard tripletty type swing a bit, I think.

Another thought - he was really quite versatile. Whilst not shifting his own style as such, he fits perfectly into contexts as diverse as 'Point of Departure', 'In'n'Out', 'Afro-Cuban' and this album.

[Big Al]

Great album, very solid, but one I don't listen to very often. I guess because I'm so used to hearing Tony Williams go bananas on other recordings that he sounds extremely subdued on this session.

That Dorham-Henderson patrnership is one of those you just don't see much of anymore: the older mentor and his younger charge going at it like two young lions. Kenny inspired Joe to undiscovered terrain (for Joe), while Joe seemed to light a fire under Kenny that made him sound and feel 25 years younger! Six albums together; pity there weren't 60!

[wolff]

Would it be a better album if 'Una Mas' was 10 minutes instead of 20? Or, is that one of the good things about it? I think the previous.

About half the time, I get up and flip it half way through. I do drop the needle down on where he says "Una Mas" before flipping.

[JohnS]

I like Dorham a lot but I'm not a big fan of this either. Best bits for me are "Straight Ahead" (it's just that) and the cd bonus ballad where Dorham shows off his lovely slightly smokey tone. The title track goes on a tad too long and I could have done witthout the switches between latin and swing in the solos during the solo sequence on Sao Paulo.

Nevertheless nice to give this one a dust off.

[Guy Berger]

Nice choice.  Maybe someone can convince me to change my belief that despite the incredible personnel, this album is more or less interchangeable with lots of solid BN dates from around the same time.

        Guy

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I listened to this a few times today and maybe I should qualify what I said earlier. I think this album is definitely better than what I'd call a "cookie cutter mid-60s BN hard bop album." BUT it doesn't really achieve the magic that the truly great BN albums have. It isn't as good as Page One or Our Thing. (Not sure if I'd put either of those in my top 25 BN albums either, but they're better than Una Mas.)

The musicians lock into a really nice groove on the title track. I like it a lot better than "The Sidewinder". Side 2 is less inspired IMHO -- I'll listen to it again tomorrow and see if I change my mind.

Guy

Edited May 23, 2005 by Guy Berger

[Guest akanalog]

this is one of those albums that never sparked for me but i felt weird abot it-like i should like this album since it has herbie and tony williams and joe henderson on it. but it never really reaches any great heights for me. in general i feel the dorham/henderson combo was overrated. i try and like all of their albums together but none of them do it for me like henderson's non-dorham blue notes which are among my favorite blue notes ever. i guess i like dorham's work without henderson better than their work together too, actuslly. but i am glad others dont love this album since it makes me feel better about my thoughts.

[JSngry]

Gave this one several relistens last night, and came away still digging it muchly, as much, if not more, for the inside of the music as what's on the surface.

A few observations from last night's encounters:

• Tony Williams on cowbell? Is there anything like that anywhere else?
  
• Butch Warren on the title track is just plain lame! The only time he comes alive is during Herbie's solo, and by then it's too late. But he's fine on the rest of the album.
  
• What's up w/KD's handclapping during Joe's solo on "Straight Ahead" when Herbie lays out? Is he groovin' or is he trying to get something out of the rhythm section? I certainly hope it's the former, because that thing is burnin'!
  
• Speaking of the possibilty of "controlling", there's a mometn if KD's solo on the title tune where things start to heat up and you can hear Tony start to really bump it up a notch, threatening to go all Tony-ish on everybody. Full-fledged BASHING is a distinct and imminent possibility. But something happens, and by the time the bridge rolls around, he's back to where he was before. Did somebody (KD? Lion? Rudy?) shoot him a "WHOA! WTF is THIS?" look (this was pre-Miles Tony, remember, so who knows how much of the Tony-to-shortly-come anybody was familiar with?), or was it just a natural pull-back on Tony's part?
  
• "If Ever I Should Leave You" was rightly omitted from the original album imo (nice enough, but hey...), But Herbie's intro on that thing is a BITCH! Check it out! Worthy of orchestration, if you ask me.
  
• It's a trip listening to Joe & Herbie interact. This was Joe's debut, so who knows how much, if at all, Herbie had checked him out. Joe's already playing some really hip shit harmonically, and Herbie, possessor of one of the quickest-reacting harmonic accompanying set of ears ever, seems to be treading cautiously so as not to "overguess" Joe. But there's a moment in "Sao Paolo" where Herbie stops his comp behind Joe just for a second, as if to wait and see if Joe's going to play what he thinks he's going to play. Joe does, and Herbie is right on it with the perfect substitution. Priceless!
  
• Although the harmonic interplay between Herbie & Joe is a little bit restrained (Warren's plodding bass on "Una Mas" certainly necessitates that Herbie keep the focus on the groove first & foremost), the rhythmic interplay between them is magical. They feed each other throughout, and listening to their interplay (and how Tony subtly but surely colors it, is one of the grooviest things about this album.
  
• Check out how KD gets into a Dizzy bag for a few seconds in "Una Mas". WAY cool!
  
• And speaking of the leader, his playing throughout is very personal. His tone is no longer melloly beautiful like it was in earlier times, probably a combination of changng chops and changing conception, but his ideas are more specific (i.e. - less "lick" oriented) than they were in olden days, so it's a fair trade if you ask me.
  
• "Sao Paolo" is a freakin' great tune. Very provocative in both content and arrangement. Wouldn't be at all out of place on Our Thing (still my favorite Dorham/Henderson collaboration) and a great album closer (which it was, as originally released), the kind of thing that leaves you with a sense of having heard something other than just another blowing date.
  

And that last note is, I think, why I dig this album so much - there's stories being told in the playing, it's not just another blowing date. Sure, everybody involved has made more "important" music elsewhere, but whoopty-damn-do. This album is full of moments where the sense of everybody listening and reacting to each other is palpable. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that this album is one such moment from start to finish. Whatever flaws there are (and there definitely are some) are more than overridden for me by that sense of immediacy and realness in the playing, the delivery of music being created, not just being made. Not all creations are going to be "great", but for me, even the least creation is at least as worthy as the greatest "product". Probably even more worthy, truth be told.

It's Joe's recording debut, it's Herbie & Tony playing together before Miles, nobody's coasting, and everybody's dealing with the moment (even Warren on the title tune - at times, I swear I can feel him thinking in combined desperation/boredom "Dammit, there's GOT be something else I can do besides play this thuddy-ass line over and over...") honestly and sponaneously. For me, that's the conquering the main obstacle roght there. Any "greatness" that results is icing on the cake.

Una Mas probably isn't a "Great Album". But it's one I can listen to repeatedly (at once, and over the years) and never fail to get engaged in and by. That may be a "simple pleasure", but, as with so many other things, if it were really that simple, everybody would do it.

Everybody doesn't do it.

[Cali]

I have always loved this album and was very happy to see it get the RVG treatment. Maybe because I have an affinity for the afro-cuban thing (the clave), the title track has always knocked me out. Back in the day, we used to dance (mambo) to it a lot. I like the length of the tune because of the groove it lays out. Joe and Kenny are cookin'! I would have liked for Butch to be more creative in his bass work, like Richard Davis does on "Mamacita" from TROMPETA TOCCATA, but he is steady and solid.

"Straight Ahead" is just that, with Kenny and Joe taking care of plenty business.

"Sao Paolo" is a beautiful tune that has an air of mystery about it. The introduction makes me imagine being on an airplane as it descends through the clouds revealing the huge Christ statue in Brazil. Reminiscent of "Sunset" from Kenny's WHISTLE STOP, it has a nice bossa feel to it. Kenny solo is outstanding here, the way he glides through the time changes from bossa to straight and back.

"If Ever I Would Leave You" took a while to grow on me, as it was not part of the original album and didn't seem to fit in, but the more I hear it the more I like it. And as JSngry previously stated, Herbie's intro is other-worldly.

All in all, for me, this is a great album. I believe the Lion and the Wolff heard the results of this session and said "WHOA!" and got KD and Joe back in the studio as soon as possible (2 months) to record PAGE ONE. When I listen to these two albums back to back, PO sounds like a continuation of the same album, sorta UNA MAS I & II.

Herbie and Tony are stellar throughout and I'm sure when he heard this album, Miles Smiled.

BTW I also love the cover. One of BN's best IMHO.

Edited May 26, 2005 by Cali

[danasgoodstuff]

I've liked this ever since vinyl days, even though I had a shittly Liberty pressing. KD & JH had a thing going on and Tony Williams is a mean cowbellist.

[chris olivarez]

This is one I need to revisit. I think "Una Mas" is a great composition.

[BruceH]

I look forward to re-listening to this album tonight. I recall liking it, but haven't given it a spin in a long time. Like Red, I'm not a Hancock fan either, but I have nothing against Tony Williams.

Will have to re-listen to Page One as well.

[cannonball-addict]

this is one of those albums that never sparked for me but i felt weird abot it-like i should like this album since it has herbie and tony williams and joe henderson on it.  but it never really reaches any great heights for me.  in general i feel the dorham/henderson combo was overrated.  i try and like all of their albums together but none of them do it for me like henderson's non-dorham blue notes which are among my favorite blue notes ever.  i guess i like dorham's work without henderson better than their work together too, actuslly.  but i am glad others dont love this album since it makes me feel better about my thoughts.

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You don't like anything man!

Nah seriously though, this is not a great album in terms of having great tunes. The blowing and the intensity of it is what makes it great although I always thought they went overboard on the end of the title track. They do it more than enough before whoever it was that yells out "Una Mas" yells it out!

[JSngry]

I always thought they went overboard on the end of the title track. They do it more than enough before whoever it was that yells out "Una Mas" yells it out!

I always looked at that as a riff on Basie's "One more time!" schtick on "April In Paris". Same thing, really, right down to the words themselves.

[wolff]

Gave this one several relistens last night, and came away still digging it muchly, as much, if not more, for the inside of the music as what's on the surface.

←

Thanks, for the time and effort put into this post.

[sidewinder]

I find this album a refreshing Departure for KD, a definite change of style after albums such as 'Whistle Stop' and the Blakey sessions. There's a real open-ness to the new sounds that BN was starting to embrace in the 1960s. Helped no end I think by the state-of-the-art (for the time) combination of Tony Williams and Herbie Hancock. The freshness of their work on this album comes across loud and clear (I also get the same feel from their work on Miles' 'ESP' - no holding them back). With respect to Tony Williams, his groove on the title track is some of the funkiest stuff I've ever heard him play. He certainly adapts his usual style well for this session.

I like the title track, its sense of exhilaration/relaxation and the way it builds on the then-current bossa nova rhythms. I also very much like Kenny Dorham's solo on this track. Technically it's very straight-forward, no histrionics. However he shares with Miles the ability to say quite a lot with the minimum notes, just by phrasing and inflection.

For me though the stand-out track has to be 'Sao Paulo'. The previous comment that this would fit well on 'Our Thing' is spot on, it has a definite air of mystery about it. The way that Dorham and Henderson's leads combine almost to one voice is amazing on this track.

To sum up then - not a masterpiece but hugely enjoyable. A great lead-in album for Kenny and Joe to build on and a tantalising glimpse of Williams and Hancock just starting to flex their musical muscles.

Thanks to all for their thoughts to date on this thread. Some interesting opinions.

Edited May 27, 2005 by sidewinder