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Terumasa Hino discussion and recommendations...


Rooster_Ties

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Guest akanalog

chuck, what the hell is wrong with you?

you have it seems basically joined two threads tonight for no reason but to give me a hard time and to insult me.

this is a TERUMASA HINO thread. i was writing i purchased a TERUMASA HINO album.

so i guess my xenophobia hasn't completely overtaken me yet, huh?

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chuck, what the hell is wrong with you?

you have it seems basically joined two threads tonight for no reason but to give me a hard time and to insult me.

this is a TERUMASA HINO thread.  i was writing i purchased a TERUMASA HINO album.

so i guess my xenophobia hasn't completely overtaken me yet, huh?

I will let you decide what's wrong with me.

I just thought you posted two "thoughtless" or "sloppy" messages in two different threads. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Guest akanalog

in fact...perhaps you would like to proofread my posts from now on. we could share an account and i could post something and then you could edit it to clean it up and get it up to your standards and to especially remove any hints of my rampant xenophobia which are right now causing me to use a mike westbrook disc as a coaster for my can of tecate beer. i mean miller lite. only domestic brews for me.

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Don't have much by or with Terumasa Hino, and am feeling the urge to find some (particularly from the 70's - though recommendations from any decade are welcome).

I think the only thing I have with him is this live date on enja from 1993....

c65855uore7.jpg

Hino / Kikuchi / Togashi - Triple Helix (enja, 1993)

Terumasa Hino - trumpet

Masabumi Kikuchi - piano

Masahiko Togashi - percussion

James Genus - bass

What else should I get?? Recommendations of dates with Terumasa as a sideman welcome too. Thanks!!

That session is absolutely incredible! The rhythmic tension is almost unbearable. I'm sorry Rooster, you won't find anything nearly as exciting as that one ;)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Does he ever come to the US? I need to see him. There seems to be no website on him but it is evident he is still working.

Matt

I don't think he has played in the U.S. for a while. Here is his official webiste.

I saw him in my hometown 15 years ago. I didn't know anything about jazz at that time (I was in high school in a small town in Japan), so I can't comment on how his played that time. But I remember getting his autograph. Now that I appreciate this music called jazz, I would like to see him live again.

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Guest akanalog

just found a copy of "love nature" at the used store!

this is a set from 1971 led by hino with gravatt, workman and bartz! (and a japanese guitarist id on't know about)

can't wait to put this one on. had been looking online with little success.

So...how is it? Is it live? Very cool find!

it's aight. a little disappointing. the two long tracks sort of lack in personality. feels like a blowing session.

edit to say-actually this is a decent album. the two songs still sort of lack personality, but the playing is good. workman and gravatt are a heavy rhythm combo. sugimoto also does some nice things and there are moments of niceness but still overall a little neither here nor there.

i think my main problem with the hino i hear is actually the other hino-motohiko. he's got a real heavy touch to my ears. he's not thrashing around or anything, but it just sounds sort of heavy-handed to me.

i mean gravatt sounds like this too sometimes, but he incoprorates dynamic into his playing-something missing with hino.

Edited by akanalog
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

Attention - Attention!! - Attention!! - Attention!! - Attention!!

Anyone and everyone here with any interest in Hino, and/or any interest in Miles circa 1968-1971...

you NEED to get this date, ASAP.

hino_teruma_hinologyj_101b.jpg

Terumasa Hino Quintet -- Hi-Nology (Japanese paper sleeve edition) . . . CD . . . $22.99 (Item: 13485)

Takt/Columbia (Japan), 1969 (Gatefold) Condition: New Copy View Cart

A pivotal recording from Japanese trumpeter Terumasa Hino -- done in a crackling electric mode that's a real departure from his earlier work! Terumasa's probably gotten a bit of inspiration here from Bitches Brew (maybe more like from "Miles in the Sky" and/or "Fille de Kilimanjaro" -- Rooster) (as you might guess from one of the titles, "Like Miles") -- but the overall sound of the record is a lot farther reaching -- with soaring spiritual tracks that take off with a lot more freedom than late 60s Miles. (this is actually at least somewhat true!! - and not just your typical Dusty Groove "Madlib 101" material -- Rooster) There's a definite fusion vibe going on here, and the group features electric piano, electric bass, and some hard tenor work by Takeru Muraoka that works with the electric side almost in a Joe Henderson mode. Titles include "Like Miles", "Electric Zoo", "Dupe", and "Hi-Nology". CD also features 2 bonus tracks from a rare funky single by the group -- "Snake Hip" and "Hakuchu No Shugeki".

This date TOTALLY and utterly kicks ass ( :cool::cool::cool: !!!!!) -- and after well over a dozen spins -- it is still freaking me out a bit ( :blink::blink::blink: ).

Here's why... "Hi-Nology" was recorded on July 31st, 1969 (except for the two bonus tracks, recorded in September 1969). So this thing definitely pre-dates the release of "Bitches Brew" by some margin (many months - I forget the exact release date of BB), and it is completely contemporaneous with and/or even slightly pre-dates Miles' earliest live performances of most of the "Bitches Brew" material (which Miles didn't really perform much of until early in the Summer of 1969, if I remember right).

So, to my ears anyway, in many ways...

Hino's "Hi-Nology" is to "Miles in the Sky" and/or "Fille de Kilimanjaro"...

...what the two Kenny Cox BN dates are to "Nefertiti" and/or "Sorcerer"

...in other words, nearly contemporary reactions to what Miles was doing 1) in 1968 ("Hi-Nology" was recorded but one year later), and 2) in 1967 (the first Kenny Cox date was recorded in 1968).

So, here's what's crazy about "Hi-Nology". Sometimes I think I can hear some of what Miles was doing, trumpet-wise (rhythmically, especially), in 1970 or later -- in Hino's playing on this July 1969 recording. If somebody told me this thing was recorded in mid-1970, I wouldn't blink. But, man, is there any chance (even slight), that Hino somehow took what Miles was doing in 1968 (or really early 1969), and took it just a bit farther -- and somehow took it a bit into Miles "future" territory, meaning what Miles was doing in late 1969 (Bitches Brew), 1970 (Jack Johnson), 1971 (etc...), maybe even 1972??

Everybody here needs to get this thing (if you don't already have it), and Jim Sangry -- that means you too. I really want to hear your thoughts on this date, Jim. I don't suppose you already have one, by any chance, do you??

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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Thanks Tom. That looks very promising. How is the sound? :blush:

I ain't no audiophiliac, but it sure don't sound half bad to my's ears.

(a.k.a. "it sounds pretty darn good to me!")

Edit: Here's another copy of the cover, so when the hot-link fails up above (which it will eventually do when Dusty doesn't carry it anymore at all, and can't order it), it'll still be here.

And seriously, people, these sides need to be heard and discussed. Freaky stuff. :ph34r:

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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NowHearThis.gif

I have a real exciting album from the 70's by Hal Galper on Enja called "Now Hear This". It's a quartet album with Galper on piano, Hino - trumpet, Cecil McBee - bass and Tony Williams - drums.

If anything, it sounds like a high energy McCoy Tyner album. If you can find it, get it. I don't know its availability, though.

Has this ever been issued on CD, even as an import? The AMG only mentions two LP issues in the mid-to-late 70's (enja and Inner City). I'd sure love to hear this one.

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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Guest akanalog

i have to disagree with rooster about hi-nology.

i found it to be a disappointing album and more in line with the sound of "the lost quintet" than bitches brew. one of the short tracks at the end hints at more, but anyone buying this album looking for the depth and complexity and um, looseness of bitches brew will be disappointed.

anyone looking for something that sounds like a slightly electric miles davis quintet from "sorceror" time with less interesting playing and compositions might enjoy this album.

i just recently sold my copy of this disc to a board member-perhaps he could let us know what he thinks since i am curious myself....

i am pretty confident that hino wasn't innovating anything-he was a good synthesizer of miles sound and style (look at the photo on the back of hi-nology), but no way in hell was miles taking anything from him. hino even covered the same tunes as miles did years earlier (stella by starlight, my funny valentine...).

i was just listening to a hino co-led album (wishes) on the train today and i was thinking about how well hino copped miles wah wah electric trumpet thing and actually the whole "maiyisha" sound really, on this one.

board member degorgio recommended a kohsuke mine album "mine" which i just bought and one tune sounds just like in a silent way-no way in hell miles copped from mine for the real thing though time-wise they are pretty close calls.

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BTW, in no way was I suggesting that Miles copped anything from Hino, or from "Hi-Nology". I was simply amazed at the degree to which Hino seems to have occasionally tread into territory that Miles really didn't get into until shortly after "Hi-Nology" was recorded.

I do think your "Lost Quintet" observations/comparisons are useful, and probably spot on correct.

But while you are correct (akanalog) that none of the tracks on "Hi-Nology" directly presage "Bitches Brew" -- I do think some rhythmic things Hino does (in his trumpet soloing specifically), get mighty close to what Miles was doing more in 1970, than what Miles was doing in 1968 and early 1969. And THAT'S what I find so interesting and/or puzzling. Wish I could describe what I'm hearing in more technical terms.

Sure it's not Miles. But so few musicians have contemporaneously tried to play like Miles after 1965 (either specifically in terms of trumpet technique and language, or in terms of overall compositional concept), that I'm fascinated by the few that did – even if they don't quite reach the heights that Miles did.

Would love to hear what others think of this album. Go get it if you don't got it, and report back here right pronto!! :)

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Guest akanalog

actually it sounds like filles de kilimanjaro-at least, parts of it. to me.

that is the miles album...

isn't there a song actually titled "like miles"?

i dunno-so yes this sounds like the filles songs with e-piano withtout the wonderful yo yo-ing dynamic rhythms of the miles album.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest akanalog

ok i will revise a little and say that "hi-nology" is a cool album.

i still hear no BB which is where my initial disappointment came in since this is how the disc was advertised to me, but i think maybe the first tune on "miles in the sky" is maybe another good reference point for this album as well as hints of "filles". maybe more of "miles in the sky" too.

either way, it is a good electric jazz album. got that miles darkness to it, though.

i just found a copy of hino's "alone together" from 1970 on CD. interesting group-hino with steve grossman and richard davis and harold mabern and motohiko hino. need to give it a first listen now that i am home.

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Granted, I'm taking a "the glass is half full, not half empty" approach to "Hi-Nology"...

...but seriously, I still think it's one of the coolest discs I've bought any time in the last year or two. I went into it without any overblown expectations (I always try to take everything Dusty Groove says with a grain of salt), and it more than exceeded the expectations I did have.

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I've never been a great fan of Hino. His style, harmonic sense etc never really did it for me but every time I go to Japan and hit the record stores, I always purchase a Hino LP or two from the late '60s and '70s that I never have seen before. Usually they get a couple of listens and then get sold on ebay (Hi-Nology had this fate). I appreciate the effort and musicianship but the records as a whole never seem to quite come off. There's another one of the Tact label called Alone Together that I liked though but more for the band, Steve Grossman, Harold Mabern, Richard Davis and a Japanese drummer (let's see if I can invoke the wrath of Mr. Nessa). It's a very loose, fun date with some great Grossman. There is also this one date that came out on Inner City when I was in high school that I saw everywhere for a buck called Way Dance with John Scofield, Ron Carter and Tony Williams. It's been a while since I've listened to that ( I was a fusion kid, I bought it because of Tony Williams, I loved Believe It and was looking for more of the same) and I think I also have the Galper date mentioned earlier, that's a good date. Like I said above, he made tons of records for Japanese labels from the late '60s on, I sure most of them are on CD in Japan but it's a crap shoot and probably an expensive one at that.

The drummer on Alone Together is Motohiko Hino, his brother?

Edited by david weiss
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Guest akanalog

david, i too tend to also enjoy the east/west collaborations more than the albums with just all japanese musicians on them.

motohiko is a pretty good drummer, in a heavy-handed sort of way, i think.

however, when he plays with terumasa, it can be wearying because i feel like in the form and style of his compositions, terumasa owes a lot to mccoy tyner. and motohiko sort of adds to that excessive mccoy tyner on milestone power kind of sound of unrelenting power. gets boring quick.

"hi-nology" is a bit lighter in the drumming department as the tyner vibe hadn't come in yet.

i see why you sold the album, but it is not bad and as rooster said, worth checking out.

just not worth excessive usage of smilies and exclamation points...hehe.

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Guest akanalog

grossman i don't really usually like, but you are right...on "along together" he sounds pretty good. he seems like he had a serious asian connection as i have heard him on albums by teruo nakamura and masabumi kikuchi as well as hino.

and i too feel terumasa is usually not the most interesting person on his own albums (especially when playing with western musicians).

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  • 3 months later...

Does anybody here think these recordings include vocals?? Reading the description carefully, they appear to - but I'm not entirely sure. (And if so, they appear to be in Japanese.) But the back cover down below seems to imply that there aren't vocals. (Description from Dusty...)

shirak_hide_hideoshir_101b.jpg

Hideo Shiraki -- Hideo Shiraki Meets Yuzo Kayama -- Complete . . . CD . . . $24.99 (Item: 404370)

Toshiba/Think (Japan), 1966/1967 (2CD) Condition: New Copy View Cart

A beautiful set of hardbop from the Japanese scene of the 60s -- 2 albums worth of material by drummer Hideo Shiraki, featuring key work by a young Terumasa Hino on trumpet! Both albums feature Hideo's interpretations of tunes written by singer Yuzo Kayama -- whole new versions of Kayama's tunes that take them far past their roots in mainstream pop, and which unlock new possibilities for improvisation in the rich colors of the songs. The whole thing's great -- with a depth of tone and musical vision that matches some of the best American jazz of the early 60s -- and the records also feature some great work on piano and organ by Yuji Ohno, plus tenor sax on most numbers, played with a sharp tone that has lots of echoes of Benny Golson's best work! Tracks are all in Japanese, and the 2CD set features a whopping 19 titles in all.

But then when I look at the back cover (which I found here), a vocalist does NOT appear to be listed in the credits.

144511_1.JPG

I don't suppose somebody can scare up some on-line samples of this particular release, by any chance?? I've done some searching myself - and come up dry (so far).

Even samples of the singer's voice (on any other record) would be potentially helpful. There are a number of discs by him (Yuzo Kayama) at Amazon, though none have any on-line samples.

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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