Bob Weinstock dies

[AllenLowe]

my only Weinstock story is per Dave Schildkraut; I aked Dave once why he sounded a little out of sorts on the Miles/Solar date. He said that they were driving to the recording studio, and he was in the car with Weinstock and Miles. Weinstock said to him, sarcastically, "so I heard you were working with Stan Kenton?" It seems that Kenton was considered less than first-rate as a jazz band, and not the place for truly hip musicians. Dave said this rattled him, and he was determined to show Weinstock that he could still play, and had Miles record the tune without the extra run through or two that he probably needed, just to show Weinstock. So he never really settled down - as you can hear on the date - Dave plays well, but does, indeed, seem nervous and not quite comfortable -

Edited January 17, 2006 by AllenLowe

[MartyJazz]

This story may be apocryphal as it was told to many years ago by a friend who was involved in the record business in NYC in the '50s but who did not actually witness it but here goes. Back in '56 when Miles recorded a quintet session with Sonny Rollins, the group decided to play a blues. Bob Weinstock's father, an immigrant from central Europe, remarked after the performance, "That's a vierd blues", hence the title "Vierd Blues".

True or not, that's just one of so many Prestige recordings I've listened to and enjoyed over the years. He truly left a great legacy of recordings, a jazz record producer's dream catalog. R.I.P.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

I think that the Japanese should honor his memory by releasing a nice little commemorative mini-lp box set containing these five Prestige LPs.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Son-of-a-Weizen

[clifford_thornton]

Huh. Interesting band.

[gslade]

Thank you Mr Weinstock

[CJ Shearn]

RIP. this was a surprise when I saw this thread.

[brownie]

From The Miami Herald:

SERVICE FOR JAZZ PRODUCER BOB WEINSTOCK TAKES PLACE SUNDAY

By Shannon Pease

A service will be held on Sunday for Bob Weinstock, a producer who recorded such jazz greats as John Coltrane, Miles Davis and Stan Getz.

Weinstock, 77, of Deerfield Beach, died Saturday of complications stemming from diabetes.

The service will take place at 2 p.m. Sunday at Riverside Gordon Memorial Chapel, 2305 W. Hillsboro Blvd., Deerfield Beach.

Weinstock, who founded the New York-based Prestige record label and later recorded local Florida musicians, got his start in the business as a teenager selling records out of his New York City apartment. Through his sales, he met a number of musicians and kicked off his own recording business in 1949, after the war.

''There was a ban on recording LPs because they were petroleum based,'' said his son, James Weinstock of North Lauderdale. ``After the ban was lifted, artists wanted to record.''

Weinstock released hundreds of recordings, his family said, including King Pleasure's, Moody's Mood For Love; and four albums by Miles Davis including Cookin' With the Miles Davis Quintet.

Weinstock also recorded folk music and may have been a forerunner in recording talking books in the 1950s, his son said.

Weinstock ran the independent label -- originally called New Jazz -- for 20 years from New York and New Jersey. In 1972, he sold the label to Fantasy Records (now Concord Music Group), and around the same time, retired to Florida and put his focus in the stock market. He never strayed far from music though.

''Everywhere he went he'd have a little Walkman in his pocket playing jazz,'' said his son, Bruce Weinstock of Minneapolis. `He was always playing jazz, all the time.''

In the 1990s Weinstock made a brief comeback in the business, recording local musicians in Florida.

Weinstock was born Robert S. Weinstock Oct. 2, 1928. He grew up in Manhattan, attended St. John's University in New York, and married his former wife, Joan, in the mid-1950s. The couple divorced in 1991.

In addition to his sons, James and Bruce, Weinstock is survived by a son Philip Weinstock of Tamarac, three grandchildren and his longtime companion, Roberta ''Bobby'' Ross of Deerfield Beach.

The family asks that donations be made to The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, the American Diabetes Association, or another charity of choice.

[Soul Stream]

I'm saddened, but I'm astounded as well. Bob was only 43 when he sold Prestige to Fantasy and, effectively, retired to Florida (though he did produce some albums for Fantasy labels in the 90s).

Why?

MG

Because he realized the music business sucks the life out of you.

[Christiern]

From the Shannon Pease piece: "Through his sales, he met a number of musicians and kicked off his own recording business in 1949, after the war.

'There was a ban on recording LPs because they were petroleum based,' said his son, James Weinstock of North Lauderdale. 'After the ban was lifted, artists wanted to record'."

I guess most of us could have figured out that 1949 was "after the war." As for the ban on recording LPs, because they were petroleum-based, that's a new one. This is what happens when clueless journalists don't bother to look things up.

In re Bob's early retirement, he had actually ceased his producing activity long before moving to Florida. He turned that job over to Esmond Edwards, the driver who transported musicians to and from New York to Rudy's Englewood Cliffs studio. Esmond was into the music and he had seen enough sessions to know what to do. Esmond was also black, which makes Bob's decision all the more commendable--there were not many non-white jazz producers in those days.

[AllenLowe]

is it true that, at one Sonny Stitt session, Bud Powell said to Weinstock, "hey fats, go get us some sandwhiches"?

[Christiern]

No, Allen, that's not true.

He said, "Hey, mother...., I ordered cheese on that!"

Fortunately, Rudy always kept an assortment of well aged, imported cheeses in the control room.

[JSngry]

What kind of gloves did he use on the cheese?

[Chuck Nessa]

What kind of gloves did he use on the cheese?

Cheesecloth.

[JSngry]

So that explains the piano sound!

[Christiern]

Not really, Monk inadvertently created that sound on October 15, 1952, when he placed on the piano a half-eaten liverwurst sandwich (on rye). Bassist Gary Mapp, gesticulating as he explained an idea he had for the next tune, "Melancholy Baby," knocked the sandwich into the piano. "You can kiss that one goodbye," said Art Blakey. "Ok, bye-ya," said Monk. With that, he started playing, but instead of "Melancholy," a new tune emerged, and it had a peculiar deli sound.

They decided to call it "Bye-Ya," and Rudy, delighted with the sound, left the sandwich where it was. As time went on and the sandwich decomposed, new sounds emerged, but Rudy periodically ordered a new liverwurst on rye, had someone eat half of it, and restored the sound.

I hope I have explained this correctly--time has a way of playing with one's memory.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

In re Bob's early retirement, he had actually ceased his producing activity long before moving to Florida. He turned that job over to Esmond Edwards, the driver who transported musicians to and from New York to Rudy's Englewood Cliffs studio. Esmond was into the music and he had seen enough sessions to know what to do. Esmond was also black, which makes Bob's decision all the more commendable--there were not many non-white jazz producers in those days.

Bob ran a great record company - the greatest in my collection - but actually, I don't think he was all that great a producer. Basically, his production technique seems to have been to ensure that the requisite musicians (or subs - see "The happy blues" sleeve notes) turned up at Rudy's and let them play more or less what they liked. Some fabulous albums were produced that way but, long term, that was a limited approach.

I find it interesting that Bob stopped producing just at the point where the company's main direction was changing to Soul Jazz; Esmond's first production occurred just after Bob had produced the first two Shirley Scott albums and Jaws' "Cookbook" vol 1. I wonder if Bob thought that type of music needed a more "hands on" production style?

MG

[Christiern]

" I wonder if Bob thought that type of music needed a more "hands on" production style?"

No

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

" I wonder if Bob thought that type of music needed a more "hands on" production style?"

No

So, do you know what he was thinking, then?

MG

Edited January 18, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[Dan Gould]

Bob didn't "produce" any record session. He supervised.

That's not an issue of semantics. I'd offer you more details if I had the interview transcribed, but the gist of what he told me was that he respected the musicians enough to get out of their way and let them play, and that 99 times out of a hundred, the caliber of musicians playing in those golden years guaranteed that memorable music would be produced. I also recall he said something to the effect that the "jam sessions" Prestige produced was the very essence of jazz, that getting great musicians together to jam on some tunes epitomized the best jazz.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Bob didn't "produce" any record session. He supervised.

That's not an issue of semantics. I'd offer you more details if I had the interview transcribed, but the gist of what he told me was that he respected the musicians enough to get out of their way and let them play, and that 99 times out of a hundred, the caliber of musicians playing in those golden years guaranteed that memorable music would be produced. I also recall he said something to the effect that the "jam sessions" Prestige produced was the very essence of jazz, that getting great musicians together to jam on some tunes epitomized the best jazz.

Thanks - that's roughly what Ira Gitler noted in "The happy blues". But did that mean he thought the records produced by Esmond, Ozzie Cadena, Cal Lampley, Bob Porter & Don Schlitten were in some way inferior because they didn't have that approach?

MG

[Dan Gould]

Bob didn't "produce" any record session. He supervised.

That's not an issue of semantics. I'd offer you more details if I had the interview transcribed, but the gist of what he told me was that he respected the musicians enough to get out of their way and let them play, and that 99 times out of a hundred, the caliber of musicians playing in those golden years guaranteed that memorable music would be produced. I also recall he said something to the effect that the "jam sessions" Prestige produced was the very essence of jazz, that getting great musicians together to jam on some tunes epitomized the best jazz.

Thanks - that's roughly what Ira Gitler noted in "The happy blues". But did that mean he thought the records produced by Esmond, Ozzie Cadena, Cal Lampley, Bob Porter & Don Schlitten were in some way inferior because they didn't have that approach?

MG

I am not aware of how those producers' approaches varied from Bob's "supervision". Porter produced a lot of organ albums - did he tell the musicians what to play? Were those sessions any less of a jam than a lot of the dates that had Weinstock's name on them?

[AllenLowe]

I know thst Schlitten was definitely a "hands on guy," suggesting tunes, themes, ideas, musicians -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Bob didn't "produce" any record session. He supervised.

That's not an issue of semantics. I'd offer you more details if I had the interview transcribed, but the gist of what he told me was that he respected the musicians enough to get out of their way and let them play, and that 99 times out of a hundred, the caliber of musicians playing in those golden years guaranteed that memorable music would be produced. I also recall he said something to the effect that the "jam sessions" Prestige produced was the very essence of jazz, that getting great musicians together to jam on some tunes epitomized the best jazz.

Thanks - that's roughly what Ira Gitler noted in "The happy blues". But did that mean he thought the records produced by Esmond, Ozzie Cadena, Cal Lampley, Bob Porter & Don Schlitten were in some way inferior because they didn't have that approach?

MG

I am not aware of how those producers' approaches varied from Bob's "supervision". Porter produced a lot of organ albums - did he tell the musicians what to play? Were those sessions any less of a jam than a lot of the dates that had Weinstock's name on them?

He certainly decided on who was going to play - many of the leaders he produced didn't have working bands, or their regular people weren't up to much (eg Rusty Bryant, Boogaloo Joe Jones), so he put them with one of his standard rhythm sections - which changed over the time he was producing at Prestige - depending on who he thought would hit it off best together - eg Pretty Purdie with Boogaloo Joe Jones. I'm pretty sure that some of the popular material on those albums was included as a result of his suggestions. But, of course, the originals were either brought to the session by the musicians or written on the spot. Sometimes that happened to the popular material; Bob wrote the sleeve note for Jones' "My Fire" and said:

""Take all"... is not the tune as written but more or less an adaptation. Harold Mabern, when asked to dig up a lead sheet could only find a copy of the record so this was transcribed for use on the date."

It seems clear that Bob asked for the tune to be included. But he was still credited as "supervisor" on the sleeve. I can't say I know the difference, if he was picking at least some of the material, between supervising and producing.

And of course, I would say that many of those albums are Soul Jazz classics. I still wonder what Bob W thought of them. Course, quite a few made big money for him...

MG

[Christiern]

Whether one calls it supervising or producing, the bottom line is that Bob had the final say. If he didn't like a take he could call for another one. Personally, I think Bob's approach (i.e. to let the musicians make the musical decisions) is a good one, but there are times when one sees (hears) more clearly from the sidelines. I think it is a bad producer (supervisor, whatever) who dictates in the studio. Make suggestions, but never force a tune or an approach on the artist--that's how I feel about it.

I have mentioned previously a time when Esmond asked me to write the notes for a Sylvia Syms album he had produced. Sylvia and I had lunch, during which she begged me to as ask Bob to let her do the session over again--she would do it gratis. Her dissatisfaction was caused by Esmond's insistence on choosing the bassist and some of the tunes. His choices were not ones with which she was comfortable. I felt her pain, but there was nothing I could do about it.

Bob once told me that he left the studio and turned things over to Esmond because he was tired of producing. He was much happier sitting behind his desk, playing the stockmarket, amusing people with his Miles Davis impressions, and--of course--making the final decisions. Like Bill Grauer (and unlike Orrin) Bob was not ego-driven, again, like Bill, he truly loved the music and felt no need to be in the spotlight.

[Chuck Nessa]

He also wanted to be removed from the musicians asking for money.