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Horace Silver and the Jazz Messengers


Guy Berger
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I just recently got a copy for the very first time.

A quick note that the RVG of this record sounds FANTASTIC. Of course, not having anything else to compare it to, I could be completely off. However, the RVG of Horace Silver Trio absolutely SMOKES the old version, so I gotta believe the same holds true here.

I love every player on this record, but even then I wasn't prepared to be as blown away as I was! Indeed, what a record!!!! :excited:

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... but they're not really bad, either.

I agree that the RVGs of the Horace Silver Quintet and Trio are two that sound really great and do the best to make one enjoy the music. Horace's records have been my daily companion for a number of years, and these two especially never failed to lighten up my spirits.

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... but they're not really bad, either.

I agree that the RVGs of the Horace Silver Quintet and Trio are two that sound really great and do the best to make one enjoy the music. Horace's records have been my daily companion for a number of years, and these two especially never failed to lighten up my spirits.

The last few on Blue Note (silver 'n Percussion, etc.) were really bad. The Andy Bey era stuff from earlier was actually pretty good, just not prime Horace Silver good.

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There are some really good tracks on Silver 'n' Brass and Silver 'n' Wood - Horace had his vision of a bigger sound (the unissued tentet session is proof of this), and he finally got it made during those years - he reached me with this, at the least. If you're a diehard fan of his maximum sextet sides, I can understand your reservations, but they're not bad, musically.

Edited by mikeweil
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...even if you are tired of mid-60s cookie-cutter hard bop, you will still find this album very exciting.

No doubt. Exactly the feelings I had when I got the album...

Maybe that's cause its one of the seminal mid-50s original hard bop dates, not a retread of a tiring formula?

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There are some really good tracks on Silver 'n' Brass and Silver 'n' Wood - Horace had his vision of a bigger sound (the unissued tentet session is proof of this), and he finally got it made during those years - he reached me with this, at the least. If you're a diehard fan of his maximum sextet sides, I can understand your reservations, but they're not bad, musically.

The tunes on those 70s sides are where most of the interest lies for me. Horace's writing kept growing & deepening. Not at all a retread of his "hit" sound, these tunes are meatier than the more famous stuff. They still got the Silver "flavor", but the forms and chords are expanded far beyond what had come before, usually.

Meatier doesn't necessarily mean better, but you gotta recognize that the although the trappings might've looked "commercial", the tunes themselves were anything but!

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...even if you are tired of mid-60s cookie-cutter hard bop, you will still find this album very exciting.

No doubt. Exactly the feelings I had when I got the album...

Maybe that's cause its one of the seminal mid-50s original hard bop dates, not a retread of a tiring formula?

Dan shoots and scores! :tup:tup:tup:tup:tup

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Another one I really dig a lot is the Jazz Messengers cd on Columbia, the one that has Blakey, Silver, Mobley playing 'Nica's Dream' and tons of other good tunes. This record is 20+ years older than I am, but to me it sounds a lot fresher than a lot of stuff released this year.

Edited by DatDere
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even if you are tired of mid-60s cookie-cutter hard bop, you will still find this album very exciting.

This statement makes me want to check it out, as I am growing somewhat bored with the genre.

Same here, but this one sounds fresh like on the first day I heard it!

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There are some really good tracks on Silver 'n' Brass and Silver 'n' Wood - Horace had his vision of a bigger sound (the unissued tentet session is proof of this), and he finally got it made during those years - he reached me with this, at the least. If you're a diehard fan of his maximum sextet sides, I can understand your reservations, but they're not bad, musically.

The tunes on those 70s sides are where most of the interest lies for me. Horace's writing kept growing & deepening. Not at all a retread of his "hit" sound, these tunes are meatier than the more famous stuff. They still got the Silver "flavor", but the forms and chords are expanded far beyond what had come before, usually.

Meatier doesn't necessarily mean better, but you gotta recognize that the although the trappings might've looked "commercial", the tunes themselves were anything but!

I always wonder if Wade Marcus was the ideal choice for the orchestrations (the way I see it, Horace arranged them, and Marcus just added the instrumental colors). He did a fine job, and I sure like it, but I'm still waiting for the equivalent to Silver of what Hal Overton was to Monk.

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Another one I really dig a lot is the Jazz Messengers cd on Columbia, the one that has Blakey, Silver, Mobley playing 'Nica's Dream' and tons of other good tunes. This record is 20+ years older than I am, but to me it sounds a lot fresher than a lot of stuff released this year.

I bought both these at the same time a few months ago. They were such standards when I started listening to jazz that the covers were imprinted on my brain but for some reason I never owned either of them. (I remember the Silver being available as 2 ten inch Lps. ) I believe that the term "hard bop" was introduced to describe these and Miles's "Walkin'". (Actually I'm sure that there were other records from the time for which the term would apply but I can't thnk of any right now.)

Edited by medjuck
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An interesting thing about the Silver & Jazz Messengers album is that Horace seems to use the same voicings for the horns as Ray Charles did a few months earlier in his December 1953 recording session in New Orleans, from which came his first hit to utilise Gospel forms, "Don't you know".

I don't think "Don't you know" had been released at the time of the first Silver & Jazz Mesengers session in February 1954, but I've often wondered whether Horace saw Ray performing the tune. Or whether their both using similar voicings and bringing in Gospel patterns was simply a coincidence deriving from the "spirit of the time".

MG

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