Caiman on Amazon

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

I got a brand new Evan's 'Consecration' box from Caiman in December for $11. Shipping was quick.

Ya can't beat that.

[zen archer]

i oredered a cd from Caiman years ago and never recieved it , sent them an email . They responded by

saying the cd was sent , oh well never saw it . i dropped it because it was only $7 and it's the only time i have been burnt online.

On amazon i have ordered from cdimports and i think what Clementine is talking about applies to

cdimports. They will send an email within a few days of your order saying the cd has been shiiped.

2 - 3 weeks later it show's up ??...it should take 3-4 days tops to send a cd cross country!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

OBVIOUSLY THEY MAKE $$$ ON CANCELLED "BACKORDERS" OR ELSE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE SO MANY FALSE LISTINGS

Where do they get the $$$ from if Amazon give you back the money? Certainly not Amazon, because you can be sure they'd put a stop to it if that was the scam. And in order to make worthwhile sums from holding cash a few days and lending it out at overnight rates, you have to have a fucking PILE. I just don't see Caiman or anyone else in that position getting profits that way, Clem. In fact, knowing the credit card companies, I doubt whether they even see the money before the transaction's voided.

I think they're just trawling for business, trying to get people interested. And if I were Amazon, I think I'd be keen for them to do so because I bet a certain proportion of geezers who are disappointed at not getting their order shove the record on a wish list. And THAT is new prospective business without deadweight.

MG

[felser]

This'll get me more of Elder Clementine's wrath, but a couple things to consider. Caimen has over a MILLION feedbacks on Amazon (including 400,00 in the last year), and about 400,000 on Half. And a lot of people don't leave feedback (I don't). That means they have at least 10,000 CD's a week going out the door (figurative, Clem). Two consequences of this:

1 - you're gonna hear a lot more bad experiences (and a lot more good experiences) with Caimen than with ma and pa regardless of how good Caimen may be or how bad ma and pa may be.

2 - I really doubt the OOP thing is sinister at all. Probably more like they list their price for virtually every CD that is released, and don't try to go back and figure out when something is out of print or not, because that is cost prohibitive in their operation, which has to be running at a very small margin, as low as their prices are.

[Dan Gould]

<snip>

You just don't have a clue, do you?

Since we both love those Ace folks so much ... I've been grabbing various Ace compilation/reissues through Caiman - about $12 plus shipping vs Amazon @$18.99.

Or speaking of the other Ace folks, Mr. Vincent down in Ole Miss., I've grabbed most of the Ace label reissue comps from Caiman - $8, $10, maybe $12 - some of them Amazon doesn't even list as available, or if they are, they give a 3 to 6 week time frame - and Caiman came through in a week or less, at a better price.

Keep "schoolin" me, son.

I'll keep enjoying the price, service and selection of Caiman.

And I'll tell you what, the next time I have a VO gig in Miami, I'll try to swing by their warehouse. If I tell you it covers about a city block, will you get off the "don't stock anything" BS?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

<snip>

You just don't have a clue, do you?

Since we both love those Ace folks so much ... I've been grabbing various Ace compilation/reissues through Caiman - about $12 plus shipping vs Amazon @$18.99.

Or speaking of the other Ace folks, Mr. Vincent down in Ole Miss., I've grabbed most of the Ace label reissue comps from Caiman - $8, $10, maybe $12 - some of them Amazon doesn't even list as available, or if they are, they give a 3 to 6 week time frame - and Caiman came through in a week or less, at a better price.

Keep "schoolin" me, son.

I'll keep enjoying the price, service and selection of Caiman.

And I'll tell you what, the next time I have a VO gig in Miami, I'll try to swing by their warehouse. If I tell you it covers about a city block, will you get off the "don't stock anything" BS?

Dan - talk to me about Mr Vincent's reissues please.

MG

[mikelz777]

I've said it before, I use them because I am a bargain whore. Just hope that nothing goes wrong with your order and you have to deal with their customer dis-service. While most of my orders have been fine, they've jerked me around several times.

Just their stats are pretty telling. On the surface, 91% would seem like a decent rating. At their current 7% negative rating, that amounts to 2670 negative ratings in the last 30 days for an average of 89 negative ratings per day. Their 90 day negative ratings amount to 7448 people or an average of 86 negative ratings per day and their 1 year rating amounts to 27,750 negative ratings for an average of 76 per day. Were I a businessman, I would find this level of dissatisfation unacceptable.

My latest experience with them was for the Jazz Icons DVD box set which they had listed on Amazon for around $38.00 new. I snapped it up immediately in the off chance they'd actually honor it and hoped for the best. What bothers me is that they lie to me unnecessarily. After about 7 days I emailed them asking when it would ship. I was told there was a delay in shipping. Another week later I emailed them and was told it was in backorder and that it would ship in 2-3 weeks. I noticed in the 2-3 weeks following my purchase that caiman continually offered the item for sale at Amazon and had even changed the price several times to compete with other sellers. When I confronted them and asked why they continued to list the item for sale if they were out of stock and that they were in violation of Amazon's listing requirement that the item has to be available to ship when it's listed, they completely ignored the question and gave canned/non-responsive answers. It was clear to me that they never intended to honor the sale. Why couldn't they be straight with me up front, cancel the sale, refund my money and apologize saying that the item was mis-listed and that they couldn't sell it at that price? Instead, they stall and outright lie and repeatedly invite me to cancel my order. If I had purchased it for the $124.00 or whatever it lists for now I'm sure it would have shipped within a couple days.

I can't say I won't ever use them again, but I try to avoid them whenever it is possible.

Edited February 10, 2007 by mikelz777

[Dan Gould]

I've said it before, I use them because I am a bargain whore. Just hope that nothing goes wrong with your order and you have to deal with their customer dis-service. While most of my orders have been fine, they've jerked me around several times.

Just their stats are pretty telling. On the surface, 91% would seem like a decent rating. At their current 7% negative rating, that amounts to 2670 negative ratings in the last 30 days for an average of 89 negative ratings per day. Their 90 day negative ratings amount to 7448 people or an average of 86 negative ratings per day and their 1 year rating amounts to 27,750 negative ratings for an average of 76 per day. Were I a businessman, I would find this level of dissatisfation unacceptable.

My latest experience with them was for the Jazz Icons DVD box set which they had listed on Amazon for around $38.00 new. I snapped it up immediately in the off chance they'd actually honor it and hoped for the best. What bothers me is that they lie to me unnecessarily. After about 7 days I emailed them asking when it would ship. I was told there was a delay in shipping. Another week later I emailed them and was told it was in backorder and that it would ship in 2-3 weeks. I noticed in the 2-3 weeks following my purchase that caiman continually offered the item for sale at Amazon and had even changed the price several times to compete with other sellers. When I confronted them and asked why they continued to list the item for sale if they were out of stock and that they were in violation of Amazon's listing requirement that the item has to be available to ship when it's listed, they completely ignored the question and gave canned/non-responsive answers. It was clear to me that they never intended to honor the sale. Why couldn't they be straight with me up front, cancel the sale, refund my money and apologize saying that the item was mis-listed and that they couldn't sell it at that price? Instead, they stall and outright lie and repeatedly invite me to cancel my order. If I had purchased it for the $124.00 or whatever it lists for now I'm sure it would have shipped within a couple days.

I can't say I won't ever use them again, but I try to avoid them whenever it is possible.

I don't get this, Mike. You wish they would cancel the sale, yet at the same time, they "repeatedly invite me to cancel my order". How much ripping off are they doing if they remind you that you are free to cancel your order?

You may also want to recalibrate the assumptions of complaint rates. Given that positive experiences are far less likely to receive feedback (like Felser, I never post feedback on any Amazon seller) I would bet that if every transaction got rated, their positive rate would rise above 95%, easily. There are thousands of transactions that they don't get "credit" for.

[Dan Gould]

Dan - talk to me about Mr Vincent's reissues please.

MG

PM sent.

[Larry Kart]

what's also interesting-- now that i've visited their actual site, not via amazon-- is their book prices are not at all as discounted. to wit, check out this recent collection of erotica:

She Came (While I Watched Her From the Bathroom Window)

det. edc, ret.

gritsville waterfront commission

You're right, there. I'm told you can get it elsewhere for about $10-$12. But I like your title better than mine.

Edited February 10, 2007 by Larry Kart

[mikelz777]

I don't get this, Mike. You wish they would cancel the sale, yet at the same time, they "repeatedly invite me to cancel my order". How much ripping off are they doing if they remind you that you are free to cancel your order?

It's because of their blatant dishonesty and outright lying. If they never intended to honor the sale then why are they telling me that the order is delayed and then that the item is in back-order yet continue to offer the very item for sale? They are intentionally lying to me and with each successive contact, they are perpetuating the lie. Then when confronted with their lie, they completely ignore the question at hand and stonewall by giving totally non-responsive replys. If they make a mistake, they should own up to it, apologize and save face. Instead, they openly lie and deceive, anger the customer and spread a lot of bad will. They only reminded me that I was free to cancel my order because that's exactly what they wanted me to do in the first place so that the non-completion of the transaction would be due to my "impatience" rather than because of their lies, avoidance and poor customer service.

[Dan Gould]

what's also interesting-- now that i've visited their actual site, not via amazon-- is their book prices are not at all as discounted. to wit, check out this recent collection of erotica:

She Came (While I Watched Her From the Bathroom Window)

det. edc, ret.

gritsville waterfront commission

You're right, there. I'm told you can get it elsewhere for about $10-$12. But I like your title better than mine.

I'm not sure how much I'm laughing at you, Clem, or that Caiman price ("list price $37 - our price $43) but thanks for the chuckle.

[JSngry]

http://www.caiman.com/Caiman/contact.cfm?l...d=1&mp=1100

At the bottom it says

© 2003-2007, Caiman Retail INC BVI.

And from this forum: http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/forum/...isguise....html

Here's their information if you would like to write them:

==

Registrant: Make this info private

Caiman Holding BVI

Wickhams Cay

P.O. Box 662

Road Town, Tortola 33126

VG

Domain Name: CAIMAN.COM

Administrative Contact :

Pilon, Yannick

atupia@yahoo.com

640 Saint Paul West

Suite 204

Montreal, QC H3C1L9

CA

Phone: 514-223-4811

Technical Contact :

Network Solutions, LLC.

customerservice@networksolutions.com

13200 Woodland Park Drive

Herndon, VA 20171-3025

US

Phone: 1-888-642-9675

Fax: 571-434-4620

==

VG=Virgin Gorda

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

what's also interesting-- now that i've visited their actual site, not via amazon-- is their book prices are not at all as discounted. to wit, check out this recent collection of erotica:

She Came (While I Watched Her From the Bathroom Window)

det. edc, ret.

gritsville waterfront commission

You're right, there. I'm told you can get it elsewhere for about $10-$12. But I like your title better than mine.

I'm not sure how much I'm laughing at you, Clem, or that Caiman price ("list price $37 - our price $43) but thanks for the chuckle.

Me too.

Is that just an individual cock-up or is that their system for making money? Since there are, after all, several hundred thousand born every minute.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

MG-- do you remember Michel Sindonda?

it's probably a red herring but Caiman <---> Cayman.... hmmmmm.

I don't remember Sindonda. I googled him a bit. Dodgy financier. Nowt new. Googled Cayman and Sindonda - got nowt.

So...?

MG

[Chuck Nessa]

Two points:

The return address on the package is no indication of the mailing point. I've ordered from them for a number of years and the differences in label printing software and packaging indicated different "fulfillment" points. It is likely they have deals with a number of suppliers to make mailings for them.

I only order from them when the price differential is worth the wait (and sometimes hassle). Orders from them typically take 5-7 days longer than other Amazon orders. I had a 2 month problem with them on a $60 order. They kept sending me phony progress reports and eventually refunded my money. Since they surely have "terms" with suppliers and the customers pay in advance, they make money with our money beyond the delivery (or not) of goods.

[felser]

Who are the good guys online, especially in Amazon Marketplace, in terms of both price and service together - who offers the whole package? There aren't any cool brick and mortars left in my area, just generic chains, and I don't want to pay an extra $5 per disc anyways. I know (and agree with) Newbury Comics, and also do well with Django's, but who else? Who offers prices within, say, $1, of Caimen and beats them in fulfillment and service? I don't find the other biggies (Import CDs, 101 CD, Amazon Fulfillment) even as good as Caimen, let alone better.

[Dan Gould]

Who are the good guys online, especially in Amazon Marketplace, in terms of both price and service together - who offers the whole package? There aren't any cool brick and mortars left in my area, just generic chains, and I don't want to pay an extra $5 per disc anyways. I know (and agree with) Newbury Comics, and also do well with Django's, but who else? Who offers prices within, say, $1, of Caimen and beats them in fulfillment and service? I don't find the other biggies (Import CDs, 101 CD, Amazon Fulfillment) even as good as Caimen, let alone better.

Moviemars has been fine in my experience. They also seem to be accurate in what is in stock and what isn't.

[robviti]

from caiman's website:

Why are certain items not available right away?

Our catalogue contains more than 2.000.000 items which obviously does not allow us to have everything in stock at once. If part of your order must come from one of our suppliers, a few days must be added to our average delivery time (some of our products are ordered from international suppliers which can take a little more time). We therefore dispatch these items to you a few days later.

from amazon marketplace:

Sellers at Amazon Marketplace are expected to abide by the following Community Rules:

Delayed shipments or pre-sells are prohibited. Items offered through Amazon Marketplace must be shipped within two business days of the close of a sale. In the event that an item you are offering will not be available for immediate delivery, alert your transaction partner and initiate any necessary refunds. It is important to maintain accurate inventory records, as instances of "stock-outs" could be reflected in your seller feedback rating.

[Chuck Nessa]

Who are the good guys online, especially in Amazon Marketplace, in terms of both price and service together - who offers the whole package? There aren't any cool brick and mortars left in my area, just generic chains, and I don't want to pay an extra $5 per disc anyways. I know (and agree with) Newbury Comics, and also do well with Django's, but who else? Who offers prices within, say, $1, of Caimen and beats them in fulfillment and service? I don't find the other biggies (Import CDs, 101 CD, Amazon Fulfillment) even as good as Caimen, let alone better.

Moviemars has been fine in my experience. They also seem to be accurate in what is in stock and what isn't.

I'm currently dealing with a problem from Moviemars. They advertised the K2 version of Bill Evans "New Jazz Conception". I received the same old 1989 version.

[JSngry]

http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2005/04...er-customer.asp

If they charge your credit card immediately & then dick around for a while if they can't fill the order immediately and then make you ask for a refund, it's a no-brainer - they're making interest on the money. How many times a day this scenario is repeated, I haven't a clue, because some of y'all have had nothing but good experiences. But there's definitely money to be made doing that. Quite an old scheme, really, and legitmate businesses do it as well. The mortgage comapny I work for is very conscious of getting their deposits in by 2PM instead of later in the day/night becasue of this "float".

Besides, anybody who charges the card before shipping ain't getting my business, just because.

Besides, I notice that they don't issue receipts themself. Whazzup w/that?

[Guy Berger]

I'm currently dealing with a problem from Moviemars. They advertised the K2 version of Bill Evans "New Jazz Conception". I received the same old 1989 version.

I had this issue with Newbury Comics (Sonny Rollins Plus Four), but after I notified them they immediately sent me the K2 version before I even sent back the OJC.

Guy

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm currently dealing with a problem from Moviemars. They advertised the K2 version of Bill Evans "New Jazz Conception". I received the same old 1989 version.

I had this issue with Newbury Comics (Sonny Rollins Plus Four), but after I notified them they immediately sent me the K2 version before I even sent back the OJC.

Guy

Well, it's a couple of weeks and all I have is crap from Moviemars and the cost of returning the cd. Never had anything but great service from Newbury. They seem to ship the same day.

Edited February 11, 2007 by Chuck Nessa

[Dan Gould]

http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2005/04...er-customer.asp

If they charge your credit card immediately & then dick around for a while if they can't fill the order immediately and then make you ask for a refund, it's a no-brainer - they're making interest on the money. How many times a day this scenario is repeated, I haven't a clue, because some of y'all have had nothing but good experiences. But there's definitely money to be made doing that. Quite an old scheme, really, and legitmate businesses do it as well. The mortgage comapny I work for is very conscious of getting their deposits in by 2PM instead of later in the day/night becasue of this "float".

But mortgage companies work on revenue in the tens of millions of dollars. When you add all those deposits together, one extra day of interest makes a huge difference. Not so much when you're talking about one CD, even if its a thousand such CDs a week.

Besides, anybody who charges the card before shipping ain't getting my business, just because.

I take it then that you don't order from any Amazon Marketplace dealer then? Because the card is charged approximately one hour after you click "place order" on the Amazon site (since you can't cancel Marketplace orders so easily, they give you a little time to think it over). Once the money is collected, Amazon informs the seller, who is *supposed* to ship in a timely fashion. But they've charged your card long before shipping.

[Dan Gould]

still, how does Caiman offer THEE absolute lowest price AND still make $$$ after cutting in both Amazon & the credit card companies? pure volume?

That, and the fact that they get a nice profit on their shipping charge, since Media Mail for a CD is maybe a buck while they are getting $2.59 each. Brings their price more in line with a lot of other sellers.