BFT46 main disc. Discussion thread

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Here we go.

I should mention that I've placed bets with myself as to who is likely to identify these tracks, so if, in response to a comment I go YEAHHHH!, you'll know I've got one right.

MG

[Durium]

As I understand most people are still puzzlin about your record MG.

Well so did I and as i'm the first one, maybe i can catch some easy fishes before the others do.

First of all - it's a very groovy and funky record - it sounds like a Jules Deelder disco . Jules Deelder is a Dutch poet and jazz record collector who has released some great compilation CDs. At big parties he plays rare danceball bebop and hard bop LPs from the 1950s and 1960s as a discjockey. I heard him last Thursday. As I told you, most tunes he plays are funky groovy tracks to dance on, most with Hamond like yours. I'm not an expert in it, but some thoughts came in my head.

Let's give it a change.

1. A very very groovy opener. I thought about Jackie Davis on hammond, but ............. that name appeared in my mind later in other tracks too.

4. Al Cohn - Zoot Sims?

5-6 Brother Jackie McDuff?

7. Art Blakey and his Afro Drum Ensemble?

10. Trees and Grass and Things

Charles William Septet

New york City. 1972

I'm sure 'bout that. I like it and heard it several times during thge last months.

You can send my price to ... well you know the address.

That's all so-far MG,

I hope others can help you identifying the other tracks.

Keep swinging

Durium

Edited April 8, 2007 by Durium

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

As I understand most people are still puzzlin about your record MG.

Well so did I and as i'm the first one, maybe i can catch some easy fishes before the others do.

First of all - it's a very groovy and funky record - it sounds like a Jules Deelder disco . Jules Deelder is a Dutch poet and jazz record collector who has released some great compilation CDs. At big parties he plays rare danceball bebop and hard bop LPs from the 1950s and 1960s as a discjockey. I heard him last Thursday. As I told you, most tunes he plays are funky groovy tracks to dance on, most with Hamond like yours. I'm not an expert in it, but some thoughts came in my head.

Pretty near right there, Durium, though I don't know the particular guy you're referring to.

1. A very very groovy opener. I thought about Jackie Davis on hammond, but ............. that name appeared in my mind later in other tracks too.

Not Jackie Davis.

4. Al Cohn - Zoot Sims?

I'm confused. I used to say that a person lacked self-confidence if he couldn't hear the sax solos in Beethoven's ninth. You must be very self-confident or you've got the track numbers mixed up (and maybe that's my fault).

5-6 Brother Jackie McDuff?

7. Art Blakey and his Afro Drum Ensemble?

Nope to both, I'm afraid.

10. Trees and Grass and Things

Charles William Septet

New york City. 1972

I'm sure 'bout that. I like it and heard it several times during thge last months.

You can send my price to ... well you know the address.

A hit! Though I've got to say, it was others I thought would get this, not you (I thought you'd get #4 ). I assume you know who the organist is.

MG

[Durium]

4. Al Cohn - Zoot Sims?

I'm confused. I used to say that a person lacked self-confidence if he couldn't hear the sax solos in Beethoven's ninth. You must be very self-confident or you've got the track numbers mixed up (and maybe that's my fault).

10. Trees and Grass and Things

Charles William Septet

New york City. 1972

I'm sure 'bout that. I like it and heard it several times during thge last months.

You can send my price to ... well you know the address.

A hit! Though I've got to say, it was others I thought would get this, not you (I thought you'd get #4 ). I assume you know who the organist is.

MG

You're right MG - I listened to track 4 again and again and I can't recollect my deeper thoughts or arguments to label it as an Al Cohn - Zoot Sims release; I guess I had a little drop out of my brains - maybe it's the age - mind that Charlie Parker and I were contemporaries for some time. Sorry, it feels great, but it also gives a lot of stress that you suggest that I could know track number four. Sorry, but up to now it's just a great tune, with a great guitar player and a groovy hammond. That's all !!

Keep swinging

Durium

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

You're right MG - I listened to track 4 again and again and I can't recollect my deeper thoughts or arguments to label it as an Al Cohn - Zoot Sims release; I guess I had a little drop out of my brains - maybe it's the age - mind that Charlie Parker and I were contemporaries for some time. Sorry, it feels great, but it also gives a lot of stress that you suggest that I could know track number four. Sorry, but up to now it's just a great tune, with a great guitar player and a groovy hammond. That's all !!

Keep swinging

Durium

Ah well. Parker and I were contemporaries for a while, too, so I know how you feel. I think you'll kick yourself when you see the answer.

MG

[John B]

First off, I want to say I'm having a blast listening to the main disc. This is a really enjoyable set! I'll post my thoughts on individual tracks as time allows but here is my first guess.

#4 - This is "Moment's Notice," by John Coltrane, done by an organ, guitar and drums trio. Very nice. I'd never heard this version before. This really sounds like it was recorded in the late 1950's. I could see this being led by the guitarist - Kenny Burrell, perhaps - but I'm having no luck finding any matches for an guitar / organ trio version of this song.

Edited April 10, 2007 by John B

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

First off, I want to say I'm having a blast listening to the main disc. This is a really enjoyable set! I'll post my thoughts on individual tracks as time allows but here is my first guess.

#4 - This is "Moment's Notice," by John Coltrane, done by an organ, guitar and drums trio. Very nice. I'd never heard this version before. This really sounds like it was recorded in the late 1950's. I could see this being led by the guitarist - Kenny Burrell, perhaps - but I'm having no luck finding any matches for an guitar / organ trio version of this song.

Glad you're liking it, John!

Not Burrell. But the tune is "Moment's notice", as you say.

MG

[John B]

1. This track is driving me crazy. I feel like I should know the sax player and organist, but nothing is clicking. The closest I can guess is one of the Big John Patton / John Zorn discs on DIW, but I know that's not correct. This doesn't really sound like BJP and, other than the shrieks, this doesn't sound like Zorn. Too "gutbucket-y" to use a Crouch-ism. I like this track a lot.

2. No clue who this is. The sax soloist steals the show for me. Not that the organist is bad, it just seems to wait for half of the song before coming in. No complaints once it joins in. The rest of the band sounds too "studio band pulled together for soundtrack work" to excite me. Competent but nothing really grabs me. Definitely worth listening to for the soloists.

3. Again I have no clue who this is. The band finds a really nice raunchy groove and rides it for the (short) duration of the track. Not a whole lot going on, but that's beside the point. Just some earthy, groovy, dirty grease. Nothing wrong with that now and again.

[Durium]

I hope you won't beat me .......

track 4: Moment's Notice by .

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the Al Cohn-Zoot Sims Quartet

24th of January 1956.

From A to Z (RCA PM 42302 )

Keep swinging

Durium

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

1. This track is driving me crazy. I feel like I should know the sax player and organist, but nothing is clicking. The closest I can guess is one of the Big John Patton / John Zorn discs on DIW, but I know that's not correct. This doesn't really sound like BJP and, other than the shrieks, this doesn't sound like Zorn. Too "gutbucket-y" to use a Crouch-ism. I like this track a lot.

You're quite right - it's neither BJP nor Zorn.

Everyone should know this sax player - but few do, unfortunately. There are so many great jazz musicians in that position, arent there?

2. No clue who this is. The sax soloist steals the show for me. Not that the organist is bad, it just seems to wait for half of the song before coming in. No complaints once it joins in. The rest of the band sounds too "studio band pulled together for soundtrack work" to excite me. Competent but nothing really grabs me. Definitely worth listening to for the soloists.

You're right about the rest of the band. The soloists were members of a small group which made a couple of albums, then this, with a bunch of studio musicians added.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I hope you won't beat me .......

track 4: Moment's Notice by .

.

the Al Cohn-Zoot Sims Quartet

24th of January 1956.

From A to Z (RCA PM 42302 )

Keep swinging

Durium

OK, THIS IS NOT THAT RECORDING, DURIUM!!!

There really are no sax players in this, and none of them are either Al Sims or Zoot Cohn.

(And by the way, I didn't realise Trane had written "Moment's notice" as early as 1956. I thought its first recording was in 1957, on "Blue train". So you learn something every day. Thanks.)

MG

[John B]

5. and 6. - Are these tracks by the same band? They almost flow together seamlessly, sound like they are from the same era sound a lot alike and are both vinyl rips. I don't know who they are but I'll guess this is the same band on both. At a minimum some shared musicians between the two tracks. Not bad

7. Ok, now this track is the real deal. I love this one! At first it almost sounded like something the Art Ensemble of Chicago would do with an added organist. This is a well recorded live performance by a fantastic organist. I love what the drummer is doing, too. I don't have this album, but I'll guess this track was taken from here.

The disc seems to be oop and I couldn't fine much information on it, so I'm not sure if this is correct.

If it is, I really hope someone puts this back in print soon because I would love to buy a copy.

Definitely my favorite track so far

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

5. and 6. - Are these tracks by the same band? They almost flow together seamlessly, sound like they are from the same era sound a lot alike and are both vinyl rips. I don't know who they are but I'll guess this is the same band on both. At a minimum some shared musicians between the two tracks. Not bad

Yes - it's the same band. The two tracks are actually Pts 1 & 2 of a 45 - though they're not continuous; pt 2 is slightly faster than pt 1 and starts afresh, rather than fading in where pt 1 left off.

7. Ok, now this track is the real deal. I love this one! At first it almost sounded like something the Art Ensemble of Chicago would do with an added organist. This is a well recorded live performance by a fantastic organist. I love what the drummer is doing, too. I don't have this album, but I'll guess this track was taken from here.

The disc seems to be oop and I couldn't fine much information on it, so I'm not sure if this is correct.

If it is, I really hope someone puts this back in print soon because I would love to buy a copy.

Definitely my favorite track so far

Yes - you've got it John!

It is out of print, but you can get a Japanese one (but not terribly cheap). I'll PM you the link.

MG

[John B]

Yes - you've got it John!

It is out of print, but you can get a Japanese one (but not terribly cheap). I'll PM you the link.

MG

Excellent! I've only heard her Jazz in Paris albums so far. Based on my foggy recollection I enjoyed those but this track takes things to a whole other level.

I'll check out the link you sent.

[sidewinder]

Track 1 - Tenor player sounds like it could be Don Wilkerson but I haven't a clue about the organ player or performance.

Track 2 - A lost George Braith performance? The recording of the mid sized band has the sonics that I associate with 1960s RVG and the arrangement sounds a bit Oliver-Nelsonish.

Track 4 is the Al Cohn/Zoot Sims Quartet...

Edited April 11, 2007 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

Track 12 is the Jazz Crusaders. Must be from that Pacific Jazz album with Groove Holmes (which I don't have and is not on the Mosaic ). Felder/Henderson front line unison sound is unmistakable.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Track 12 is the Jazz Crusaders. Must be from that Pacific Jazz album with Groove Holmes (which I don't have and is not on the Mosaic ). Felder/Henderson front line unison sound is unmistakable.

Nearly correct.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Track 1 - Tenor player sounds like it could be Don Wilkerson but I haven't a clue about the organ player or performance.

Not DOn Wilkerson.

Track 2 - A lost George Braith performance? The recording of the mid sized band has the sonics that I associate with 1960s RVG and the arrangement sounds a bit Oliver-Nelsonish.

Not George Braith. Not RVG. Not Oliver Nelson arrangements. Royaume Uni, zero points.

Track 4 is the Al Cohn/Zoot Sims Quartet...

Royaume Uni, zero points.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

7. Ok, now this track is the real deal. I love this one! At first it almost sounded like something the Art Ensemble of Chicago would do with an added organist. This is a well recorded live performance by a fantastic organist. I love what the drummer is doing, too. I don't have this album, but I'll guess this track was taken from here.

The disc seems to be oop and I couldn't fine much information on it, so I'm not sure if this is correct.

If it is, I really hope someone puts this back in print soon because I would love to buy a copy.

Definitely my favorite track so far

Went to bed last night thinking, "if the AEC play this kind of stuff, why aren't I buying their albums?" So, what would you recommend to start me off, John? Not too far from this kind of thing?

MG

[John B]

Went to bed last night thinking, "if the AEC play this kind of stuff, why aren't I buying their albums?" So, what would you recommend to start me off, John? Not too far from this kind of thing?

MG

It's probably a stretch to say the AEC played like this, but I definitely can hear some similarities. The recordind that I think comes closest to this vibe is Americans Swinging in Paris: The Pathe Sessions, specifically "Les Stances a Sophie," with Fontella Bass. Sections of Bap-Tizum, which is a live recording from 1972, also might work. I'd suggest checking out The Pathe Sessions first. Just don't expect a real direct linkage from the track on your BFT.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Went to bed last night thinking, "if the AEC play this kind of stuff, why aren't I buying their albums?" So, what would you recommend to start me off, John? Not too far from this kind of thing?

MG

It's probably a stretch to say the AEC played like this, but I definitely can hear some similarities. The recordind that I think comes closest to this vibe is Americans Swinging in Paris: The Pathe Sessions, specifically "Les Stances a Sophie," with Fontella Bass. Sections of Bap-Tizum, which is a live recording from 1972, also might work. I'd suggest checking out The Pathe Sessions first. Just don't expect a real direct linkage from the track on your BFT.

Ah, thanks John.

MG

[mikeweil]

A spring flu I caught two days ago while walking around in a t-shirt even outside the sun gives me an excuse to lie around and listen to music - picking up my BFT duties ....

1. "The Honeydripper" - sounds a little wild for a Jack McDuff version. I know this honker, but don't dare drop any names.

2. "Berimbau", the Baden Powell tune. Wouldn't expect that one in a soulful Chess/Argo-type context. Is that Hank Crawford on alto? Certainly not Walter Wanderley on organ.

3. "Dark Eyes" - you like it wet 'n' wild, it seems. Not to be taken too seriously. Again he doesn't succeed in his attempts to blow the horn apart. Too much cha-cha-cha here ...

4. Up to this tune it could have been a sax BFT just as well, but now: "Moment's Notice". Reminds me of a Bill Goodwin trio CD I have with Vic Juris, which is in a similar neobop vein. This is very well played - I like it, all three of them. More, please!

5: "After Hours"? This has New York and the Atlantic sound written all over it. King Curtis? I like this a lot more than the very forced utterings on the first three tunes. Yeah, brother!

6. Should be the flip side of the previous piece, or part two. Yeah, yeah!

7. "Shabazz"? Deep black music from the 1970's. No idea who that is, although they sound damn familiar.

8. Comedy time .... that background track is again very familiar. But ...... my head is too numb.

9. I'm beginning to realize that I appreciate those greazy organ combos now a lot more than I did in the 1970's when I started diggin' into jazz more seriously, other wise I'd sure identify some of these players.

10. What is this thing called calypso? Again, not to be taken too seriously. Nice sweet alto.

11. They make you curious what tune it's gonna be: "Jive Samba". One of the most used riffs ever milked as much a spossible. Yeah yeah yeah! They are groovin'!

12. Churchy sounds with a Jazz Crusaders touch. Very nice rhythmic tenor. Again, no clue ....

13. By now the greaze starts drippin' from my hard disk .... Why is there no sax register on the B3? Because there are saxes a-plenty to play along!

14. Very nice again, but still no clues. Another one I'd like to hear more from, although the drummer is a little sloppy. Would have liked this better without sax. I know that guita sound .....

15. James Oscar Smith? But the master wouldn't repeat himself that much.

16. "Please Send Me Someone to Love".

What a shame - not one identification! Gotta take a bath to get all the greaze off .....

p.s. I had toyed with the idea of my own B3 BFT but signed it off when you announced yours. But the music you selected is so different from what I had in mind that there will the another organ BFT some day!

Thanks a lot for the trip!

[Dan Gould]

Thanks to Allan for a wonderfully greasy compilation. I will go on record right now as saying that despite the paucity of guesses I am going to offer, I fully expect this BFT to set a record for inclusion of tunes I own yet can't recognize.

Since one can only write "me likey" and "no name jumps to mind" so many times, I'll cut to the chase:

4) I believe this is Greg Hatza on organ, and I believe that makes it Paul Bollenback on guitar.

5) & 6) Clifford Scott, I believe.

10) This has a very strong early 70s Mainstream Records vibe. Pretty sure its Charles Williams, who put out three LPs on the label, some of which I really love, some get a little too time-bound for me (but I wouldn't get rid of 'em anyway).

Allan, have you ever given us the scoop on how a Brit of a certain age became so deeply fond of African-American music, way back when? Were a lot of your mates the same way or were you alone in your deep passion for this style of music?

Thanks again for the outstanding set of tunes. I'll try to give a listen to the bonus disc by the weekend.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

16. "Please Send Me Someone to Love".

Not that song.

What a shame - not one identification! Gotta take a bath to get all the greaze off .....

Indeed! I had expected you to get #4.

p.s. I had toyed with the idea of my own B3 BFT but signed it off when you announced yours. But the music you selected is so different from what I had in mind that there will the another organ BFT some day!

Good idea!

MG

Edited April 11, 2007 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Thanks to Allan for a wonderfully greasy compilation. I will go on record right now as saying that despite the paucity of guesses I am going to offer, I fully expect this BFT to set a record for inclusion of tunes I own yet can't recognize.

Since one can only write "me likey" and "no name jumps to mind" so many times, I'll cut to the chase:

I'm bitterly disappointed Dan I had you marked down to get half of these!

I expect you'll come up with a few more in a few days - or be kicking yourself when the answers come out.

4) I believe this is Greg Hatza on organ, and I believe that makes it Paul Bollenback on guitar.

Nope.

5) & 6) Clifford Scott, I believe.

The tenor player isn't credited, but I doubt very much if it's Clifford.

10) This has a very strong early 70s Mainstream Records vibe. Pretty sure its Charles Williams, who put out three LPs on the label, some of which I really love, some get a little too time-bound for me (but I wouldn't get rid of 'em anyway).

Charles Williams is right. Durium identified the track and album. He didn't mention the organist.

Allan, have you ever given us the scoop on how a Brit of a certain age became so deeply fond of African-American music, way back when? Were a lot of your mates the same way or were you alone in your deep passion for this style of music?

Long story. Basically, I was an R&B fan in 59/60 and got to it from there.

MG