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Its amazing how stupid some sportswriters are. Wallace Matthews of Newsday believed (before today's admission) that A-Rod's home run count stopped at the end of 2002. In other words, the numbers put up before there was a testing regimen are actually more trustworthy than the numbers A-Rod put up from 2004 on, when there was one, and he hasn't tested positive yet.

:wacko:

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Its amazing how stupid some sportswriters are. Wallace Matthews of Newsday believed (before today's admission) that A-Rod's home run count stopped at the end of 2002. In other words, the numbers put up before there was a testing regimen are actually more trustworthy than the numbers A-Rod put up from 2004 on, when there was one, and he hasn't tested positive yet.

:wacko:

But hasn't his body irreversibly changed? I don't really understand how any of these players are still allowed to play. I don't see how a suspension or fine is just. Just because they stop taking steroids, that doesn't mean their bodies immediately weaken to their previous state, right? Or am I wrong? I'm no expert.

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Jose told the truth

Word.

and how..

"They are looking in the wrong places," Canseco said in a text message to The Associated Press. "This is a 25-year cover-up. The true criminals are Gene Orza, [union head] Donald Fehr and [commissioner] Bud [selig]. Investigate them, and you will have all the answers."

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I want to see the other 103 names, and hear the rest of them apologize. May as well at this point.

Baseball would be better off if the public didn't know about any of it.

I wonder how many have used speed to get an edge, since the time when amphetamines were invented. You know, they weren't always illegal and would be prescribed to cure hiccups. The whole Nazi army was on amphetamines in WW2, you think some of those old players weren't using them to react quicker to the ball? First ballot Hall Of Famer Ricky Henderson admitted he was high on cocaine when he stole his record bag. Who liked a little nose candy throughout the history of the game? How many players dip? Chewing tobacco heightens the senses too. Should we ban coffee? I hear some players eat a bunch of candy bars before a game for a sugar rush...I mean, I'm just having a hard time processing why one way of getting an advantage is so much worse just because it involves power as opposed to reaction time. The pitchers were weaker, the ball was juiced, the players were juiced...so what? It was fun to watch.

I'm sick of the whole issue. It distracts from the game, and I get to watch more blabbing sportswriters and less highlights.

Edited by Noj
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Its amazing how stupid some sportswriters are. Wallace Matthews of Newsday believed (before today's admission) that A-Rod's home run count stopped at the end of 2002. In other words, the numbers put up before there was a testing regimen are actually more trustworthy than the numbers A-Rod put up from 2004 on, when there was one, and he hasn't tested positive yet.

:wacko:

But hasn't his body irreversibly changed? I don't really understand how any of these players are still allowed to play. I don't see how a suspension or fine is just. Just because they stop taking steroids, that doesn't mean their bodies immediately weaken to their previous state, right? Or am I wrong? I'm no expert.

You actually bring up a very important issue. Baseball players started lifting weights, back in the 80s (there were probably a few before then, too, but it was discouraged because you were supposed to lose flexibility). Steroids simply make workouts more effective in building muscles. If you use steroids and don't work out, muscles don't magically appear. But if you use steroids and workout, muscle growth is greater, and the ability of the body to workout more frequently is improved.

The problem is that you can't separate muscles built from steroids + working out from muscles built from steroids + working out + continuing to workout after going off the juice. Players have gone off steroids yet remained with pretty chiseled physiques (Ivan Rodriguez is one - everyone remarked about how much skinnier he was the year that testing started, but he was still a pretty strong guy, just no the muscle-bound guy he was.

So, the reality is that you can use steroids, get stronger, stop using steroids and maintain a physique that isn't that far off what you were. Bonds used steroids and put on 30 pounds of muscle or more. He didn't have to keep using steroids after the BALCO story broke in order to maintain that muscle gain.

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At half time in the interview, my first reaction: I now have zero respect for ARod, and I think the interview is pure bullshit.

Mathew, I totally agree. Did you notice how many weasel words he used? Its "pretty accurate" that he used from 2001 to 2003?

Or that he was "stupid, naive, I didn't ask the right questions"? Those are the excuses given when you unintentionally take banned substances, not when you willfully decide because of the "pressure" of living up to his contract.

How about the "I don't know what I took"? This is a guy who in high school was smart enough to eat chicken and veggies instead of pizza, but he took the "I'll use whatever you use" approach to steroids?

I can't wait for the season to start - "A - ROID" chants ringing across the land. Darryl Strawberry never heard it like A-rod will.

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I bet Johnny Damon used steroids when he started with KC he had a body like Jacoby Ellsbury but by the time

of the 04 season he was much bulkier ....and didn't the players say he did chin ups naked in the clubhouse.

and what about Gabe Kapler , i know on WEEI he denied ever using roids but wasn't he on the same team with Canseco and A-Rod ?

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So of the big name players who have been linked to usage:

Admitted:

A-Rod

Andy Pettitte

Jason Giambi

Denied:

B*nds

Clemens

McGwire

Pudge

Sosa

Tejada

...

I'm sure there are other big names I'm forgetting on both lists. I wonder if Rodriguez' admission will help in the public eye (ala Pettitte), versus Bonds'/Clemens'/etc repeated denial, and subsequent vilification.

The one in many ways that is the worst of all is Rafael Palmerio. He blamed vitamin injections by teammate Tejada as being contaminated with 'roids. Not admitting you're at fault and blaming a teammate smells worse to me than plain old denying & lying.

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Baseball would be better off if the public didn't know about any of it.

I wonder how many have used speed to get an edge, since the time when amphetamines were invented. You know, they weren't always illegal and would be prescribed to cure hiccups. The whole Nazi army was on amphetamines in WW2, you think some of those old players weren't using them to react quicker to the ball? First ballot Hall Of Famer Ricky Henderson admitted he was high on cocaine when he stole his record bag....

Part of it is that people love to take down others that are more successful then them, also for whatever reason sports fans who love the NFL don't care about roids but hold baseball to higher standard. The other people making the biggest fuss over this are the sportswriters who knew about roids as far back as the mid 90's and either didn't do their jobs by missing the story or being too chicken shit to report it. As much as I don't like the players that lied about cheating (or got ahead of players that were honest) I dislike even more the writers who looked the other way reporting the issue then and now feel they have a moral high ground to take on Bonds, McGwire, Sosa. Guess what guys you were part of the problem also.

Edited by WorldB3
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He explained the use of steroids was because of the Texas "culture". They demanded performance on the field or something like that. What team doesn't, especially New York teams. So, knowing what his explanation is for starting to use steroids, what is his explanation for stopping steroids ("100% clean") once he became a Yankee where pressure to perform is much more intense?

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... The other people making the biggest fuss over this are the sportswriters who knew about roids as far back as the mid 90's and either didn't do their jobs by missing the story or being too chicken shit to report it. As much as I don't like the players that lied about it I dislike even more the writers who were two faced about reporting the issue and now feel they have a moral high ground to take on Bonds, McGwire, Sosa. Guess what guys you were part of the problem also.

Hm. While there's some truth in what you're saying, and I understand your being pissed off, I sense there's a little more to it. I think it may be a mistake to assume everyone knew and looked the other way. Some may have. Others may simply not have known. But it goes beyond that to the question of when the public became concerned about steroid use in baseball. That's the point at which coverage of the issue took off because there was a demand for the information.

Again, I wouldn't excuse any reporter who knew and looked the other way -- and I'm sure there were some. But coverage of the issue also involves how the public views drug use in general. Baseball itself didn't seem to care until recently. Same might be said of the public in general.

To give a parallel example, suppose we all know that cocaine use on wall street is rampant among traders. Well, we kind of do know that. But there are no stories about it because the public doesn't really care. In a few years time maybe a part of the economic collapse will be pinned on drugged up traders. Investigations will be launched. Reporters will report, and will be blamed for not bringing this to light earlier; for looking the other way.

We all looked the other way.

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Watching it the second time - I was cooking dinner at the same time and was walking back and forth, trying to listen to it all - and there seems to be even more contradictions. He was under so much pressure, but he won't say when specifically he decided to use, won't say what, won't say who he got it from, and has this weird fixation on GNC. Is it possible that what A-Rod is really saying that, amongst a team of hardcore juicers, he went down to GNC and experimented with supplements? Supplements that he now understands contained "ingredients that will trigger a positive test"?

Someone has to nail this guy down on certain things:

Was anything injected?

Are you speaking of using supplements that you purchased at GNC?

How did you feel while you used them? Did you feel stronger? Did you see the ball better? Did you have any of the side effects common to steroid use?

I think Gammons is a great writer but he is too close to too many players and can't be counted on to do a serious interview.

Edit to add that the supplement theory explains his "naive, stupid, didn't ask the right questions" statement.

Edited by Dan Gould
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Watching it the second time - I was cooking dinner at the same time and was walking back and forth, trying to listen to it all - and there seems to be even more contradictions. He was under so much pressure, but he won't say when specifically he decided to use, won't say what, won't say who he got it from, and has this weird fixation on GNC. Is it possible that what A-Rod is really saying that, amongst a team of hardcore juicers, he went down to GNC and experimented with supplements? Supplements that he now understands contained "ingredients that will trigger a positive test"?

Someone has to nail this guy down on certain things:

Was anything injected?

Are you speaking of using supplements that you purchased at GNC?

How did you feel while you used them? Did you feel stronger? Did you see the ball better? Did you have any of the side effects common to steroid use?

I think Gammons is a great writer but he is too close to too many players and can't be counted on to do a serious interview.

Edit to add that the supplement theory explains his "naive, stupid, didn't ask the right questions" statement.

I don't buy the whole interview. He says:"Again, it was such a loosey-goosey era," Rodriguez said. "I'm guilty for a lot of things. I'm guilty for being negligent, naive, not asking all the right questions. And to be quite honest, I don't know exactly what substance I was guilty of using."

ARod signs a 250 million dollar contact, and he doesn't know what's going inside his body? No way that happens. It sounds like the article/book that is coming out is going to say that ARod basiclly took steroids all his life.

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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...na_roberts.html

Rodriguez went on to accuse Roberts of stalking him, saying she "has been thrown out of my apartment in New York City ... has five days ago just been thrown out of the University of Miami by police for trespassing ... and four days ago she tried to break into my house where my girls are up there sleeping, and got cited by the Miami Beach police. I have the paper here."

Rodriguez never produced any papers, but asked "that people don't follow this Selena Roberts lady" by continuing to dig for information.

The University of Miami and Miami Beach police departments could neither confirm nor deny Rodriguez's claims Monday night because their public information officers had left work before the interview aired.

Sports Illustrated released a statement saying it stood by the story, and Roberts issued her own statement calling Rodriguez's allegations "absurd."

"I've never set foot in the lobby of Alex's New York apartment building, never spoken to the University of Miami police, and never set foot on his home property or been cited by the Miami police for doing so," she said.

That rant by A-Rod came out of left field, and I have a feeling he's going to be answering for it when the UM and Miami Beach PDs fail to back up his story.

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I happen to think that as reporters dig deeper into this story, the worse it's going to be for ARod. Would not be surprised now if it doesn't come out that ARod has been taking as a Yankee. The continuing impression the interview has left me is an immature man, who continues to hide behind a bunch of lies. There is just so much bs in what he said in the interview, that I'm thoroughly disgusted.

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I happen to think that as reporters dig deeper into this story, the worse it's going to be for ARod. Would not be surprised now if it doesn't come out that ARod has been taking as a Yankee. The continuing impression the interview has left me is an immature man, who continues to hide behind a bunch of lies. There is just so much bs in what he said in the interview, that I'm thoroughly disgusted.

Yeah, I totally agree w/ you. This scandal is definitely not over for him. One of the local columnists has this to say...

On the surface, Rodriguez's candor was admirable. He seemed more human in 30 minutes on ESPN than he has in his entire 15-year career as a major-league superstar.

But that candor would have been a lot more admirable and valuable before Sports Illustrated reported that Rodriguez tested positive for two performance-enhancing substances in 2003. That "truth" would have been more compelling if it wasn't scripted and tailored to address only the time frame covered by the report.

It was like a televised plea bargain: Rodriguez offered up his three years with the Texas Rangers in order to protect his early years as a phenom in Seattle and his superstar seasons, including the future ones, as a Yankee.

It was impossible to view Rodriguez's strategy as anything more or less than that - a smart ploy to avoid the perjury-trial, Hall-of-Shame-not-Fame fate of Steroid Era poster men Bonds, Roger Clemens and Rafael Palmeiro. Rodriguez or his handlers - who was he looking at off-camera? - learned that lying does more permanent damage and comes with more legal consequences than the original cheating.

That doesn't mean Rodriguez opened up completely, though. There were several warning signs that his truth-telling was calculated and calibrated: enough to appeal to the American public's tendency to forgive, but not enough to open any fresh new cans of steroid-bloated worms.

The first warning sign: Rodriguez repeatedly attacked Selena Roberts, the longtime New York Times reporter and columnist who helped break the story for SI. Roberts, a journalist with excellent credentials, has a book coming out and Rodriguez seemed hell-bent on discrediting it in advance. And that maneuver would be a lot more credible if Roberts' and David Epstein's reporting hadn't landed him on ESPN in the first place.

Rodriguez was careful not to name the substances he took - smart because he'd expose himself to possible criminal prosecution for using non-prescribed drugs. Primobolan, one of the steroids Rodriguez reportedly used, is not available in the United States even with a prescription.

It strains credulity that a world-class athlete would use random substances he knew nothing about. If Rodriguez really wanted to be "set free," a little of that difficult truth would have been persuasive.

By limiting his admissions to those three "naive" and "stupid" years between 2001 and 2003, Rodriguez is making a play to salvage his legacy. He has nine years - apparently a fixed number of seasons he intends to play - to hit enough home runs and put up enough other numbers that his home-run record and Hall of Fame credentials will survive without the three tainted years.

More ...

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2009...or_feigned.html

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Very interesting info about the steroid he tested positive:

The United States Food and Drug Administration has banned the drug from entry into the United States. In July 1989, the F.D.A. sent out a border alert preventing a list of more than 40 anabolic steroids that can be used as performance-enhancers from being brought into the country. Primobolan was on that list.

“You can’t prescribe it in the United States, so if you test positive for it here, there’s no getting away with it,” said Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an antidoping expert and member of the World Anti-Doping Agency. “It’s also not manufactured by the human body, so if it shows up, it’s like flashing red lights going off. You’re caught with your pants down.”

and

Some anabolic steroids, like testosterone, may be prescribed by doctors as replacement therapy for men with a hormone deficiency. Others may be prescribed for women with gynecological conditions or breast cancer.

But Primobolan does not fit those categories. It is a black-market drug, taken primarily by injection but also in tablet form.

Wadler said the injectable form of the drug could be detected for just short of two weeks, and the oral drug might be detectable for less than a day, depending on the dose. The performance-enhancing effects can last for months, experts said.

That last bit is very interesting, because A-Rod seemed to claim that he had an epiphany during spring training 2003. But he didn't specifically say he stopped then. Given how short the window is for a user to test positive, its practically a given that he had to be using during the 2003 season, which puts the lie to this whole claim of taking a good luck at himself and realizing he needed to grow up and stop using these substances.

Another interesting tidbid:

Primobolan was known for building strength without much muscle bulk, and also for having few side effects. He explained that male athletes using Primobolan would not have enlarged breasts, shrunken testicles or a higher voice because the drug, unlike some other steroids, did not convert to estrogen after it was taken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/sports/b...html?ref=sports

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