Hot Ptah Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Ain't no "luck" to it. It's people carpe deiming on their time and place, and it is to be encouraged! I am all for that. I wonder if it is lucky when the people "carpe deiming" happen to be perceived as a gateway into jazz by a lot of people. Right now we have people "carpe deiming" who are motivating people to download more Miley Cyrus and Jonas Bros. songs. Edited August 11, 2009 by Hot Ptah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Portable music with a short shelf life reflecting a world that desires the same. It is what is it, why it is. The question for me is this - can/should/will "jazz" become interested in getting its message, its "content", into a similar delivery method? In otehr words, will the object change from Building A Lasting Memorial to Giving People Some Good News And Inspiration For Today. Sure, that's what jazz has (almost) always done, but what difference does it make if nobody's listening to get it? Now for this, I really don't ahve any answers. but I'll continue to ask the question, because it's a valid one, I think. And I also know that a lot of the possible answers will be unpalatable to many of us who just can't get our mind around the concept of "nowhere" and "everywhere" becoming the same thing. But as time goes by....something is going to have to change, and I've got no doubt that it will. But as the Ghost said a few pages back, maybe not too many of "us" are gonna like it, or even recognize it. Oh well. The beat goes on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Larry, you talk about Roscoe, hell everytime I've seen him, he wasn't exactly extroverted, but thru body language and playing demeanor, I never once felt that I was anything less than welcome in the room. It's just a vibe tha people give off no matter what/how they paly, a vibe that says, here, this is for you, from me, you're welcome to it! Of course. But that welcoming vibe is a function of his belief in/involvement in his music. People get that and dig it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Ain't no "luck" to it. It's people carpe deiming on their time and place, and it is to be encouraged! I am all for that. I wonder if it is lucky when the people "carpe deiming" happen to be perceived as a gateway into jazz by a lot of people. Right now we have people "carpe deiming" who are motivating people to download more Miley Cyrus and Jonas Bros. songs. "Carpe deiming"?? I wonder what Horace would have thought about that... [carpe diem quam minimum credula postero] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Larry, you talk about Roscoe, hell everytime I've seen him, he wasn't exactly extroverted, but thru body language and playing demeanor, I never once felt that I was anything less than welcome in the room. It's just a vibe tha people give off no matter what/how they paly, a vibe that says, here, this is for you, from me, you're welcome to it! Of course. But that welcoming vibe is a function of his belief in/involvement in his music. People get that and dig it. Ahhh....but we both know people who are equally involved in their music who do not project that "welcoming" vibe. And some of them play what seems to be very "friendly" music! I still say (and say it after a lot of observation and deliberation on the subject over the last few years), that there's an intangible element of "personality" that transcends the music. It won't make "difficult" music any "easier", but it can make it less immediately off-putting to some. Just as in "real life" we can often get a vibe from somebody that "something ain't right" about them and keep our distance, so can that same vibe manifest itself in performance. No absolutes here, just tendencies, but tendencies that play out over time, it seems to me, and tendencies that I've increasingly observed in a lot of "jazz musicians" over the last, say, 20-25 years. Lots of players just don't like people, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Being something of a late-to-the-party guy on this thread I have to say that, like Larry, it was the last sentence in the article that hit me: "...jazz musicians who want to keep their own equally beautiful music alive and well have got to start thinking hard about how to pitch it to young listeners—not next month, not next week, but right now." I totally disagree with this pronouncement. Marketing isn't the key. All musicians should be playing what they feel and letting the chips fall where they may. "Pitching" it to anyone - young or old or in-between - isn't going to make any difference in the long run. As several people have pointed out it's more about attitude than it is about musical content. Let's face it, only a small percentage of the general population has appreciated jazz for quite some time now. I do agree that making jazz a stuffy museum-piece is counter-productive. But selling it like pop music is just as counter-productive. If the music is presented with guts, soul and intellect by the musicians that's all we can ask. Pandering to some imagined "youth market" is nonsense. With all due respect to Mr. Teachout, "young listeners" aren't all alike by any stretch of the imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Lots of players just don't like people, period. Let me refine that...becuase there's always been a lot of players who "don't like people"....what I've seen an increase in over the years is self-absorption, perhaps even "narcissism", people who are pretty much incapable of seeing anything but themselves - and who don't particuarly want to be able to. That's a problem. With all due respect to Mr. Teachout, "young listeners" aren't all alike by any stretch of the imagination. Except that they are all young... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 . . . With all due respect to Mr. Teachout, "young listeners" aren't all alike by any stretch of the imagination. Except that they are all young... And almost everyone is "young" from my perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Nine pages of posts and we still haven't managed to kill jazz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Might be too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Remember, Mama said you can't hurry evolution. No, you'll just have to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 So, you're an evolutionist!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Like Kateta Aton (geez, whatever happened to her?), I'm a resonator for the creator, who has a master plan, so yes, I am an evolutionist. Or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Reading the topic title again, shouldn't this be in the religion forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 This is a letter to the editor in tomorrow's Journal (printed in full): Regarding Terry Teachout’s “Sightings: Can Jazz Be Saved?—The audience for America’s great art form is withering away” (Leisure & Arts, Aug. 8): Yes, jazz can be saved—if it is willing to change the performance schedule. The audience is 50 to 80 years old. We are not in nightclubs at midnight. We are in bed. Jazz shows that start on weekend afternoons are successful in this town. Sure, musicians just want to play. They do not want to deal with demographics, marketing, or commercial realities. But if they want to make a living, they have to start shows in the afternoon and end them in the early evening. Mara Majewski Orlando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) I don't mean to be nasty, but that's the silliest idea I have ever heard. Edited August 12, 2009 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 To put it another way, if the people making the music aren't doing what they really want to do, why should they expect that anyone else would really want to experience it? I agree. On the other hand, if no one wants to listen to what you want to play, it might not be because of their defect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Look, I understand the reaction of the bebopers who were sick and tired of being thought of as "entertainers" rather than "artists", but isn't it time to get over that? I mean, I see people here complaining that they can't find gigs anymore...well, just maybe that's because people aren't looking for Art, they're looking for entertainment. If you really find it beneath yourself to play for an audience, fine, but quit bitching about the fact that there's no audience. This whole idea that music must be intently studied and that no feeling by the audience is allowed sounds like the biggest load of crap on the planet. The thought of a musician actually connecting with their audience to the point that they start dancing, and then being offended by that reaction just boggles my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Yep. It's pretty pretentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave James Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Agree with my Oregonian cohort, Jazzmoose. Seems to me several years ago there was a medium sized dust up over a Branford Marsalis concert where he was downright dismissive of the audience because they didn't "get" what the band was were doing. That's the kind of attitude that accompanies art, not entertainment. It's also a great way to make sure you don't get many gigs. As soon as musicians start thinking they know more about what the paying customer wants than the paying customer, as far as I'm concerned, they can hop a fast boat to China. Up over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Seems to me several years ago there was a medium sized dust up over a Branford Marsalis concert where he was downright dismissive of the audience because they didn't "get" what the band was were doing. Dude, I've seen guys spend 15+ minutes dissing some audience member who paid them a compliment (not to their face, thank god...). Why? "What the fuck does that idiot know? Has he put in the hours? Does he know the tunes? Can he play the changes? Why should I give a shit what he thinks, he don't know a damn thing." This is like a chick who thinks that every guy who pays her any kind of compliment at all is just trying to fuck her. It's some weird combination of vanity, insecurity, and self-loathing that extends beyond the strictly musical (where, yeah, ok, self-flagellation is an essential ingredient of a well-balanced esthetic). It ain't right, and I've seen it more than once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Miles Davis got bored with jazz and stopped playing it. Aren't the limitations of jazz quite apparent? In any case, as far as I can tell jazz lives beyond even its merits. Is there a major city where it can't be heard? Is there a record store without a single jazz CD? Isn't it widely studied and imitated? Oh and on dance, if you don't want folks to dance don't play in a constant tempo. Then they can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 This is a letter to the editor in tomorrow's Journal (printed in full): Regarding Terry Teachout’s “Sightings: Can Jazz Be Saved?—The audience for America’s great art form is withering away” (Leisure & Arts, Aug. 8): Yes, jazz can be saved—if it is willing to change the performance schedule. The audience is 50 to 80 years old. We are not in nightclubs at midnight. We are in bed. Jazz shows that start on weekend afternoons are successful in this town. Sure, musicians just want to play. They do not want to deal with demographics, marketing, or commercial realities. But if they want to make a living, they have to start shows in the afternoon and end them in the early evening. Mara Majewski Orlando If we all got jazzed first thing in the morning, the world would be a better place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Or not: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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