Jump to content

Billy Joel


Dmitry

Recommended Posts

Was just spinning my moderately chewed up Turnstiles album. 'Summer, Highland Falls' and "I've Loved These Days" are probably known only to the fans; I don't even think I've heard either one on the radio. Undeservedly, imho.

Didn't care much for "All You Wanna Do Is Dance", "James", and "Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway)" .

His vocal style on the "New York State of Mind" reminded me of Ray Charles.:shrug[1]: Awesome song.

How was Joel's music viewed at the time by the young people of above-average intelligence?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The only Billy Joel album I've ever needed, recorded live, mostly lesser-known tracks that weren't huge hits. Really top-drawer stuff, none of it 'overplayed'.

d31231c897x.jpg

Songs in the Attic (1981)

1. "Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway)" – 5:05

2. "Summer, Highland Falls" – 3:03

3. "Streetlife Serenader" – 5:17

4. "Los Angelenos" – 3:48

5. "She's Got a Way" – 3:10

6. "Everybody Loves You Now" - 3:08

7. "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" – 4:25

8. "Captain Jack" – 7:16

9. "You're My Home" – 3:07

10. "The Ballad of Billy the Kid" – 5:28

11. "I've Loved These Days" – 4:35

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was just spinning my moderately chewed up Turnstiles album. 'Summer, Highland Falls' and "I've Loved These Days" are probably known only to the fans; I don't even think I've heard either one on the radio. Undeservedly, imho.

Didn't care much for "All You Wanna Do Is Dance", "James", and "Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway)" .

His vocal style on the "New York State of Mind" reminded me of Ray Charles.:shrug[1]: Awesome song.

How was Joel's music viewed at the time by the young people of above-average intelligence?

As yet more 70s sounding American pop crap!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, Billy Joel is a guy who's had pop hits that I enjoyed listening to on the radio when they were popular. But when I hear these same songs years later, I really don't like them. They sound too, I don't know, calculated and superficial. I never purchased any of his albums, and I really can't imagine ever wanting to buy one in the future.

Edited by sonnymax
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, Billy Joel is a guy who's had pop hits that I enjoyed listening to on the radio when they were popular. But when I hear these same songs years later, I really don't like them. They sound too, I don't know, calculated and superficial. I never purchased any of his albums, and I really can't imagine ever wanting to buy one in the future.

Well put.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His prime covered the punk years and if you were into punk you loathed him. Not that punk was a requirement for loathing him...In college I remember having a set of friends where we'd always refer to him by including his middle name "Fucking." Yeah I know, a real clever crowd but he just gave off that kind of vibe to us. "Big Shot," "Allentown," "It's Still Rock & Roll To Me" were some of the more horrific radio songs of the day. Bill Murray's Nick the Lounge Singer helped ease the pain of the continued overexposure of the sappy "Just The Way You Are." Singing lounge was a great defense against all sorts of annoying songs when trapped with an out of (your) control radio.

It wasn't until the early '90s that I started having friends who say, thought The Nylon Curtain was a very good album. So I have to be more careful when his name comes up as apparently some aren't familiar with his middle name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How was Joel's music viewed at the time by the young people of above-average intelligence?

Not sure I could count myself among that group, but did have some friends. There was a lot of chauvinistic pride about his being from Long Island; some remembered his earlier groups (The Hassles and Attila), and some had his first album (Cold Spring Harbor) on its original label. Piano Man was huge in the Northeast. To many of us, his music had a Harry Chapin-vibe: very melodious, somewhat obvious lyrics. Joel was far more clever and interesting than Chapin, though. I always thought his music had a Broadway vibe to it, and would fit very well in musicals. Then The Stranger hit. While it was huge, it was of a piece with his earlier albums; it was just that all the pieces jelled, finally came together. After that, he was a solid hitmaker.

BTW, if you can find it, there was a great concert released in the earlier days of video called "Live on Long Island," filmed at the Nassau Coliseum. Very great concert, perhaps the highlight of his career IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter of how much of his catalog I find aggravating there are many other "hitmakers" of the era that make me gag more. I hadn't thought of a Harry Chapin comparison, I was thinking he was sort of a James Taylor singer-songwriter who played piano instead of guitar.

I agree with Tom's opinion of Songs From the Attic but I really don't understand why Dmitry rejects "Seen the Lights go out on Broadway", certainly one of the best songs written in response to then-current political disputes (NY Daily News headline when Ford said no federal bailout for NYC "Ford to NY Drop Dead").

Well, at least it was much better than "Allentown".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He speaks well to high-school age males, and most of them (myself included) don't realize just how selfish and self-centered all of Joel's songs are until they reach adulthood.

But, like Journey, even he has his good moments: I've always liked "Allentown," which is about as honest as he gets, and manages to do so without his usual self-aggrandizement (sp?). "The Longest Time" is fun, and I always admired the fact that he released an acapella single like that in 1984. "She's Right On Time" has a killer hook that lures me in every time. And, finally, "New York State of Mind" is one of the greatest songs ever written about the state, but take that with a grain of salt from someone who's never been to New York. Which is probably why that song works so well for me.

But beyond that? Just a lotta "it's all about me" posturing without the musical cajones to back it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not unexpected responses.

I, myself, was not exposed to Joel's music until the mid-1980s, being that I had no access to the Nylon Curtain, living behind the iron one. The first record of his that I heard was The Bridge, which was head and shoulders above the 1980s euro-trash that was ubiquitous then.

I really don't understand why Dmitry rejects "Seen the Lights go out on Broadway", certainly one of the best songs written in response to then-current political disputes (NY Daily News headline when Ford said no federal bailout for NYC "Ford to NY Drop Dead").

It's quite easy. The factual considerations of the lyrics were unknown to me, but the song does not excite from the purely musical stand-point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I know that the live version is much, much superior to the original studio recording.

Kinda (well sorta really really really) scary to think that "2017" isn't exactly deep into the future anymore. I wonder if Joel will be on tour in 2017, playing "Miami 2017".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A much-maligned artist, sometimes fairly, sometimes not. I imagine that his great sin in the eyes of punk fans was to aspire to a degree of craftsmanship. At least he never wound up selling butter.

I liked him very much when I was a young teenager, before I became self-conscious enough to reject that sort of polished, well-crafted pop, and although I've never returned to his albums, I have a hits collection and enjoy it.

I even saw him in concert at Wembley Arena during my period of liking him (around the time of The Bridge) and remember it as a very good gig; he's quite zany and very approachable live.

Of his later songs, I most like River of Dreams, which comes across as sub-Paul Simon world music, but lyrically is a very thoughtful, metaphoric account of loss of religious faith. It's tempting to dismiss Joel as selfish and superficial -- and he can be complacent, it's true -- but that can also blind you to the depth he often displays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hated "Piano Man", still do, even worse now than then, hate Harry Chapin too...Yuck City, all that mess, but...the run of albums from Turnstiles through Glass Houses was some of the finest crafted pop music of the 70s, the kind of songs and albums that everybody was hoping that Paul McCartney would make but very seldom did. Not that Joel got that respect then, he usually didn't, but if you wanted McCartney to make albums worth of immaculately produced distinctive melodies with catchy lyrics and varied musical backing, hey, Billy Joel was doing exactly that.

The "problem", such as it is, is that the songs & albums satisfy first and foremost from the craftsmanship/skills angle far more than they do in making any kind of an "emotional connection". Even McCartney at his worse still had the backstory to make you dislike it out of disappointment, not anger. Joel never really seemed to deliver any backstory, or what he did was not particularly appealing, but was rather sort of smug and angry for no distinctively or discernible reason other than just because. Not good enough, sorry.That presented a huge problem for many back in the day, but now that the songs are "pop history" instead of current news, that is less of a consideration when listening to the music.

But a consideration it remains. I have no problem in admitting to appreciating and even enjoying any number of Billy Joel songs/records, but I still can't muster it to say that I like Billy Joel. Not particularly. But there's no denying that the man has skills, and in Phil Ramone, he found his George Martin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I also fall into the camp of admiring the craftmanship, but never liking the music. I think of him like a poor man's Elton John. I consider Elton John to be an extremely talented songwriter and artist, more so than Billy Joel, but I have trouble connecting with him on an emotional level as well. I would still take Elton John over Billy Joel any day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider Elton John to be an extremely talented songwriter...

Oh LORD no! That nonsense just moves and moves and never really ends up anywhere. Musically and lyrically. Every time I have to sit through one of those songs, they actually make me mad, not becasue thewy're "bad", but jsut because they're...unnecessarily "clever" without ever justifying the cleverness. It's some kind of combination of a self-indulgent lack of discipline and a vainglorious "LOOK AT ME" vanity thing, to write all those songs that just meander all over the place with lyrics that are just...silly. Between Elton John & Grand Funk, turning off the Top 40 radio between 1970 & 1973 still remains the easiest, most obvious no-brainer of a decision I've ever had to make. Still!

Just my opinion, of course, but between Elvis & Elton John, I've got two massive reasons why rock-era popular music should have been killed - killed -before it was born. Thank god there's any number, finite but large, of reasons to feel otherwise!

What will be cool when the technology arrives is to take all those Billy Joel/Phil Ramone albums & replace Joel's voice with McCartney's. When that happens, it'll be all good. Until then...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like I have to keep an eye out for the Songs in the Attic in the dollar bins.

Should have mentioned more before, that "...in the Attic" is made up of live versions of nothing but deeper album-tracks from his first 4(?) albums. I don't spin it but once every couple years or so, but it's like putting on an old well-worn favorite jacket from the back of the closet. First heard it back in college, and I haven't found it lacking 20 years later.

That said, I've never felt any need to explore any of the rest of the man's catalog, as I find most of his 'hits' a little too cute by half.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's talented, I grew up listening to the radio when he was popular...but I could never sit down and listen to an entire album.

To me he falls into a group of artists that I have never understood or feel any desire to understand; Bruce Springsteen, Bob Seger, Elton John, etc.

I stay away from the top 40 of 1970-73 as well, but many of my favorite "albums" are from that 3 year period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JSngry nails it for me. Interesting that you compare him -- accurately -- to McCartney, who nevertheless has the capacity to be annoying as a person in a way that Joel never does. Maybe McCartney cares too much, but Joel doesn't care enough?

You are right on Elton, too, although many of his ballads are pretty and the uptempo ones are fine for the gym. Bernie Taupin, his lyricist, is the luckiest man in the history of pop, though: ZERO talent -- a computer could come up with lyrics that scanned, rhymed and made more sense than his illiterate scribbles.

JSngry: what's your take on Springsteen? He's one that I could never get the point of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider Elton John to be an extremely talented songwriter...

Oh LORD no! That nonsense just moves and moves and never really ends up anywhere. Musically and lyrically. Every time I have to sit through one of those songs, they actually make me mad, not becasue thewy're "bad", but jsut because they're...unnecessarily "clever" without ever justifying the cleverness. It's some kind of combination of a self-indulgent lack of discipline and a vainglorious "LOOK AT ME" vanity thing, to write all those songs that just meander all over the place with lyrics that are just...silly. Between Elton John & Grand Funk, turning off the Top 40 radio between 1970 & 1973 still remains the easiest, most obvious no-brainer of a decision I've ever had to make. Still!

Just my opinion, of course, but between Elvis & Elton John, I've got two massive reasons why rock-era popular music should have been killed - killed -before it was born. Thank god there's any number, finite but large, of reasons to feel otherwise!

What will be cool when the technology arrives is to take all those Billy Joel/Phil Ramone albums & replace Joel's voice with McCartney's. When that happens, it'll be all good. Until then...

It is kind of hard for me to respond to that because, as I said, I am not even close to being an Elton John fan. His music does not move me. On the other hand, his constructs strike me as individual and distinctive, and his artistic goals serious. So I have always chalked him up as one of many talented artists who I just don't connect with. But maybe you are right. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider Elton John to be an extremely talented songwriter...

Oh LORD no! That nonsense just moves and moves and never really ends up anywhere. Musically and lyrically. Every time I have to sit through one of those songs, they actually make me mad, not becasue thewy're "bad", but jsut because they're...unnecessarily "clever" without ever justifying the cleverness. It's some kind of combination of a self-indulgent lack of discipline and a vainglorious "LOOK AT ME" vanity thing, to write all those songs that just meander all over the place with lyrics that are just...silly. Between Elton John & Grand Funk, turning off the Top 40 radio between 1970 & 1973 still remains the easiest, most obvious no-brainer of a decision I've ever had to make. Still!

Just my opinion, of course, but between Elvis & Elton John, I've got two massive reasons why rock-era popular music should have been killed - killed -before it was born. Thank god there's any number, finite but large, of reasons to feel otherwise!

What will be cool when the technology arrives is to take all those Billy Joel/Phil Ramone albums & replace Joel's voice with McCartney's. When that happens, it'll be all good. Until then...

It is kind of hard for me to respond to that because, as I said, I am not even close to being an Elton John fan. His music does not move me. On the other hand, his constructs strike me as individual and distinctive, and his artistic goals serious. So I have always chalked him up as one of many talented artists who I just don't connect with. But maybe you are right. :)

Of course as noted above Elton isn't even a songwriter...

Both have produced some good music though you have to look for it in lengthy uneven careers and also overlook their personalities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there some kind of a hidden meaning to this cover?

Looks like each figure, or a couple, represent the songs. The dude with books is 'James', the glitterati couple is either the 'All You Wanna Do Is Dance', or 'I've Loved These Days', etc.

I think I've spend way too much time on this... :rolleyes:

billy-joel-turnstiles-outtakes-very-rare-a6a8b.jpg

Edited by Dmitry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

JSngry: what's your take on Springsteen? He's one that I could never get the point of.

Individual songs are ok with me, but on the whole, I've always thought that he marked one of the turning points in American history (musical and otherwise) when we decided to look back & celebrate instead of move forward and build. I know that's not at all what he's about (at least not lyrically, not usually), and I give him a little credit for backing out rather than trying to stay in, but still... "Born To Run" (the song and the album, but especially the song) is about as perfect example as I can think of of how loving something but not understanding it can kill it even worse than hating it.

Besides, John Cougar/Cougar Melancamp/Melancamp has rocked harder and written better songs that share the same basic concepts as Springsteen. And he dances better.

Edited by JSngry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...