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Billy Joel


Dmitry

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Springsteen is one of those artists I have a fair bit of respect for, but zero interest.

I don't know anything about him, and was never touched by his music, but I know that he's very respected for some reason. In fact, someone I know, a woman in her late 40s, travels all over the North East to attend his shows, and has been for years.

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I consider Elton John to be an extremely talented songwriter...

Oh LORD no! That nonsense just moves and moves and never really ends up anywhere. Musically and lyrically. Every time I have to sit through one of those songs, they actually make me mad, not becasue thewy're "bad", but jsut because they're...unnecessarily "clever" without ever justifying the cleverness. It's some kind of combination of a self-indulgent lack of discipline and a vainglorious "LOOK AT ME" vanity thing, to write all those songs that just meander all over the place with lyrics that are just...silly. Between Elton John & Grand Funk, turning off the Top 40 radio between 1970 & 1973 still remains the easiest, most obvious no-brainer of a decision I've ever had to make. Still!

Just my opinion, of course, but between Elvis & Elton John, I've got two massive reasons why rock-era popular music should have been killed - killed -before it was born. Thank god there's any number, finite but large, of reasons to feel otherwise!

What will be cool when the technology arrives is to take all those Billy Joel/Phil Ramone albums & replace Joel's voice with McCartney's. When that happens, it'll be all good. Until then...

It is kind of hard for me to respond to that because, as I said, I am not even close to being an Elton John fan. His music does not move me. On the other hand, his constructs strike me as individual and distinctive, and his artistic goals serious. So I have always chalked him up as one of many talented artists who I just don't connect with. But maybe you are right. :)

Well, maybe you are, for that matter. I jsut know that he was a serious turnoff for me in the 70s & has remained one ever since. It's gotten even worse since playing in bands that cover the stuff. That's when the real pointlessness of his structures really began to stand out for me. Usually a good but not necessarily "easy" song will reveal its strengths as you here it performed live. Either the good parts stand out more as the production element is removed or you hear something not happen that you feel should and that's when it hits you "oh, THAT'S what's going on" or something like that. But these EJ songs, good GOD, they just meander all over the place, and when a hook finally arrives its like that feeling that you get when your blind date is just garden variety ugly instead of hideously malformed, you know, you're thankful enough, but you'd really rather that the whole thing had never happened in the first place.

But again, that's just me.

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Besides, John Cougar/Cougar Melancamp/Melancamp has rocked harder and written better songs that share the same basic concepts as Springsteen. And he dances better.

There, I really differ with you. I like Springsteen, but cannot stomach Mellencamp at all. Never could. I just don't get it.

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Interesting comments. I was never much of a Billy Joel fan pretty much preferring his pre-stardom stuff and outright hating much of his hit stuff. He still plucks a nostalgic string as he reminds me of my freshman year in college and a friend who liked listening to his earlier stuff. I really like Elton John up to the mid 70's though I don't really listen to him anymore unless I'm on another nostalgia bender. Springsteen lost me at "The River" but I like everything that preceded it. John Cougar never did much for me though I can't say I dislike him. I never really forgave him for the Jack And Diane lyric, "Suckin' on a chili-dog outside the Tastee Freeze." Who sucks on a chili-dog?

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I think Mellancamp usually stays within himself, always a good thing when you have a "message".

Having said that, neither Springsteen nor Mellancamp are individuals about whose work I really "care" about, if you know what I mean.

But I do loathe Elton John. For real.

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JSngry: what's your take on Springsteen? He's one that I could never get the point of.

Individual songs are ok with me, but on the whole, I've always thought that he marked one of the turning points in American history (musical and otherwise) when we decided to look back & celebrate instead of move forward and build. I know that's not at all what he's about (at least not lyrically, not usually), and I give him a little credit for backing out rather than trying to stay in, but still... "Born To Run" (the song and the album, but especially the song) is about as perfect example as I can think of of how loving something but not understanding it can kill it even worse than hating it.

Besides, John Cougar/Cougar Melancamp/Melancamp has rocked harder and written better songs that share the same basic concepts as Springsteen. And he dances better.

Thanks -- and for making me laugh to boot. I've always sensed that Springsteen was somehow beyond criticism and could never figure out why. He's always struck me as about as authentic and interesting as Dire Straits, yet while the latter gets a mixture of respect and ridicule as the sort of thing salesmen and IT guys listen to, Springsteen is revered as if he were Leonard Cohen or something.

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I grew up on Billy Joel's music. My parents owned everything from "Cold Spring Harbor" through "An Innocent Man" on vinyl and played him often. Probably the most played albums were "Turnstiles," "The Stranger," "52nd Street," and "Glass Houses" and "The Nylon Curtain," but I heard them all a good number of times. Once he hooked up with Christie Brinkly, I checked out. He suddenly seemed to happy for my taste. Then, in high school, I disdained him as everything that was wrong with pop music in the '80s. In college, I turned up my nose while all of my floormates (at Hofstra U) blasted "We Didn't Start The Fire" over and over again.

At some point during the intervening years, I bought a CD copy of "Turnstiles" which for many years was the only Billy Joel album I owned. I got it mainly for "Summer Highland Falls," "I've Loved These Days," and "Miami 2017," which were my favorite of his songs, but I generally dug the whole album and still consider it one of his overall strongest works.

Then, just a few months ago, I started getting interested in him again and wound up picking up his entire catalog (most of it for very little money when I worked at Borders). To my surprise, a good deal of it really holds up. I think that "Streetlife Serenade" is probably (along with "Turnstiles") his most underrated album. Some really great songs on there ("The Weekend Song," "The Great Suburban Showdown," "The Entertainer," etc.). So now, I have to say, I really enjoy his stuff. Not the greatest ever, but pretty damn good. The guy wrote some really high quality stuff. And he's an excellent musical mimic. You can listen to a good number of his songs and very clearly hear the artist he had in mind when he wrote it. Of course, on "An Innocent Man," that was the point (which I didn't get AT ALL when the album was new, btw. Now I can tell on each song which artist Joel was trying to evoke), but he does it on a lot of other albums ("Sleeping With the Television On" on "Glass Houses" (his response to punk and new wave) is very clearly meant to be a "This Year's Model" era Costello song).

I think Mellancamp usually stays within himself, always a good thing when you have a "message".

Having said that, neither Springsteen nor Mellancamp are individuals about whose work I really "care" about, if you know what I mean.

But I do loathe Elton John. For real.

I like Springsteen, Mellencamp, AND Elton John. For real.

I also like Dire Straits...

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Glad someone mentioned Elvis Costello, he goes on my list as well.

AFAIC, Elvis Costello is in another, dare I say "higher", league altogether than the others mentioned in this thread.

Elvis Costello is to these other guys what Frank Sinatra is to Steve Lawrence. No disrespect to anybody involved, it's all good, but at some point the meat separates from the shaft.

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I wasn't judging Costello against these others, he was just another artist I never "got" and decided I didn't need to expend the effort. However, there is definitely something about Costello that irritates the crap out of me...so at least he does cause an emotional response (these others don't really).

On a side note, my version of hell would be having to listen to Born To Run for eternity...

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AFAIC, Elvis Costello is in another, dare I say "higher", league altogether than the others mentioned in this thread.

Elvis Costello is to these other guys what Frank Sinatra is to Steve Lawrence. No disrespect to anybody involved, it's all good, but at some point the meat separates from the shaft.

Yes but the lyrics. What is he on about???

I was a major fan of Costello's up to and including Spike, after which I lost interest. After getting into the Great American Songbook, I find it had to listen to Costello's songs because the lyrics are so obscure and overwritten. When he gets angry -- or even worse, sinister -- while singing lines like "somewhere in the quisling clinic there's a shorthand typist taking seconds over minutes" I feel like laughing. It's such balls. Terrific tunes though.

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I like how Costello uses words. He's often an impressionist instead of a literalist, much like prime Dylan. Not eveybody's cup of tea, especially if the GAS is lots to your liking, but...different strokes and all that. To me, it's a lot like jazz in terms of improvising new, more abstract meanings out of standardized, literal materials. Sometimes teh meaning is just in the sound, the rhythm, the cadence, etc.

Although, the lyric you cite sounds like a description of group sex taking place on a secretary's desk..but maybe not!

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I wasn't judging Costello against these others, he was just another artist I never "got" and decided I didn't need to expend the effort. However, there is definitely something about Costello that irritates the crap out of me...so at least he does cause an emotional response (these others don't really).

On a side note, my version of hell would be having to listen to Born To Run for eternity...

See, I love Costello and own everything he's ever done. And I mean EVERYTHING. I even have the limited edition Costello/Nieve live box...

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Don't have any opinion on him, but I did spring the 99 cents on iTunes for the song with Freddie Hubbard.

"Zanzibar." Yes, nice tune indeed, and one of my favorite Freddie solos of all time. Also forgot to mention the intro/outro to "The Stranger" as being a perennial favorite.

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AFAIC, Elvis Costello is in another, dare I say "higher", league altogether than the others mentioned in this thread.

And he thought so to (as do I.) I have an '84 recording solo recording where Elvis makes Billy Joel jokes a few times thoughout the show. :lol:

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See, I love Costello and own everything he's ever done. And I mean EVERYTHING. I even have the limited edition Costello/Nieve live box...

I always liked Steve Nieve very much, especially when he was leading the house group on Jonathan Ross's show in the Eighties, working with loads of different artists.

Nieve has a knack for creating riffs that breathe life into a tune; the Dancing Queen licks on Oliver's Army are the most famous example, but there are lots of others. I once heard a live version of What's So Funny where he quoted A Summer Place in the outro, kicking the song into a completely new territory.

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Never been a huge 70's-80's pop fan, but Joel is one artist from that era that I somewhat enjoy. He is often compared to Elton John, but Joel has that 'New York street smarts' soul that I can identify with. Elton is very talented, but doesn't grab me. My favorite Joel tune is 'Get It Right The First Time'. I find Elvis Costello somewhat annoying - he doesn't have any real vocal abilities (IMHO), although I like the fact that he has a taste for good American standards.

I once saw him performing on tv, playing a beautiful vintage Gibson L5 jazz guitar - he was literally banging on it with lots of distortion - painful for me to watch.

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