Scott Dolan Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 But two pieces of equipment should sound different. They're different pieces of equipment from different manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Yep, expecially loudspeakers can sound hugely different, even they cost exactly the same, technology can be so different, bass reflex, horn, electrostats, and the sound go accordingly. Edited January 29, 2014 by porcy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 But two pieces of equipment should sound different. They're different pieces of equipment from different manufacturers. Loudspeakers almost always are audibly different (and they are also the weakest link in the sound chain in many systems). Comparing speakers at home can be quite tricky though, since by necessity they can't be placed at the exact same spot at the same time, and placement has impact on the sound in most settings. But are you claiming that there's an audible difference between any piece of sound equipment compared to every other? A blind test will prove you there's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 How about switching your speaker wires over to coat hangers? http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Well, I tried to hang my shirt on speaker wires and it doesn't work, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Daniel, loudspeakers should be placed accordingly to the room. And I doubt that a blind test for loudspeakers score the same of a test about speaker wires. Anyway at home I listened to components that I really wanted to buy: they were nice, more expensive and they were exactly what I thought they should be. But they sounds different to my expectations, so I didn't buy them. Overall if listen to music is a pleasure and as pleasure follow the psychological laws of pleasure perception, I can't really understand all the rage and the mocking against audio. Edited January 29, 2014 by porcy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 But two pieces of equipment should sound different. They're different pieces of equipment from different manufacturers. Loudspeakers almost always are audibly different (and they are also the weakest link in the sound chain in many systems). Comparing speakers at home can be quite tricky though, since by necessity they can't be placed at the exact same spot at the same time, and placement has impact on the sound in most settings. But are you claiming that there's an audible difference between any piece of sound equipment compared to every other? A blind test will prove you there's not. So my old Pioneer VSX-454 sounds just like my current Emotiva rig? And my Emotiva rig sounds just like Lon's Decware amp? And Lon's Decware amp sounds just like my Harman Kardon AVR120? And my AVR130 sounds just like Kevin's McIntosh? Sorry, it wouldn't take anything more than a quick listen to each to prove that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 So my old Pioneer VSX-454 sounds just like my current Emotiva rig? And my Emotiva rig sounds just like Lon's Decware amp? And Lon's Decware amp sounds just like my Harman Kardon AVR120? And my AVR130 sounds just like Kevin's McIntosh? Of course, that's not at all what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Huh? You clearly stated that a double blind test would show that my claim that different pieces of equipment sound different from each other wasn't true. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly. I was addressing your claim that "two pieces of equipment should sound different". I read that as meaning that there would always be an audible difference between any two different CD players, transports, amplifiers etc. If that's not what you meant, I apologize. What I've tried to say all the way is that two pieces may sound differently, but that some differences claimed in non-blind tests are not possible to verify in blind tests. Hence my beliefe that many listeners are biased from knowing the manufacturer (and possibly the price) of the equipment in question. Edited January 29, 2014 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 What I've tried to say all the way is that two pieces may sound differently, but that some differences claimed in non-blind tests are not possible to verify in blind tests. Hence my beliefe that many listeners are biased from knowing the manufacturer (and possibly the price) of the equipment in question. I agree, now it sounds correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly. I was addressing your claim that "two pieces of equipment should sound different". I read that as meaning that there would always be an audible difference between any two different CD players, transports, amplifiers etc. If that's not what you meant, I apologize. What I've tried to say all the way is that two pieces may sound differently, but that some differences claimed in non-blind tests are not possible to verify in blind tests. Hence my beliefe that many listeners are biased from knowing the manufacturer (and possibly the price) of the equipment in question. Ah, OK. Yeah, I wasn't getting that part. Probably more my fault than yours. I agree for the most part, but will say that some companies do indeed have "signature" sounds. Two that immediately come to mind are Yamaha and Harman Kardon. And you, me, or anyone else familiar with either could quickly pick them out of a police line up without even having to think about it. Yamaha has a bright and nearly brittle sound, whereas Harman Kardon has a far warmer sound signature. As I mentioned before, my buddy that had a McIntosh tuber listened to my HK and told me it had a "tube-like" sound to it.* But you're right in that if we went beyond that in the mass-marketed receivers/amplifiers, i.e. Pioneer, JVC, JBL, Fisher, whatever, it would be nearly impossible to hear any discernible differences. And though I haven't heard a whole lot in the range that I'm in with my Emotiva equipment, I can't discern any notable sound signature to that brand. Unless I use their proprietary automatic room correction/parametric EQ which makes it sound like a crappy Yamaha... *This is made even more odd considering the HK had a better THD rating than anything else in its class. The higher levels of harmonic distortion in tube amps is what gives them their warm, round sound. Edited January 29, 2014 by Scott Dolan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I noticed this in the booklet to Sonny Rollins - Road Shows Vol. 3: Special thanks to Angelo Tordini and Reference Laboratory for the RMC01 cables used in conjunction with the recording and transfer of these digital masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think you need to mention your budget. My guess is that any 12g speaker wire will be fine.Yep. As long as it's properly insulated. The audiophile cables and power cords are nothing but snake oil.My recommendation is the home improvement store 12g underground low voltage wire. Make sure it's "outside-rated', meaning it's well-insulated. Should cost you about $.25 per foot, or thereabout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah, I posted a speaker cable calculator here at some point, IIRC. You just need the proper gauge for the length of cable you're running, and yes you want it well insulated. Spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on pixie dust is pretty silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah, I posted a speaker cable calculator here at some point, IIRC. You just need the proper gauge for the length of cable you're running, and yes you want it well insulated. Spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on pixie dust is pretty silly. I'm sure you have, I just didn't have the heart to read through another 6 pages-worth of the speaker cable voodoo.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 And one can hardly blame you. I can't recall the entire conversation, but it reached all new heights in both heatedness AND silliness.  But, I guess I'd be pretty upset to find out my $50/100/1000 a ft speaker cable didn't possess any magical or otherworldly physics-defying capabilities too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I strongly disagree, based on my own experience, but know better than to argue with those who are "certain" about these things any longer. I've noticed a very clear difference between every speaker cable I've used, not tied to price. And I'm very happy with the synergy between that I am using now and my other components compared to those I've used previously. And being happy with what we are using to listen to music with is the name of the game. Edited July 2, 2015 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) So untrue but whatever, I long ago discounted any of the closed-minded things you say about audio. Edited July 2, 2015 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I had forgotten about it. I'll start from the beginning, and read it all again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) So untrue but whatever, I long ago discounted any of the closed-minded things you say about audio.It's like a Christian admonishing me for not believing in God. You can believe anything you like. I'll stick with science and facts. I'll also adhere to the law of dinishing returns over the belief that the more money I throw at it, the better it will sound. Edited July 2, 2015 by Scott Dolan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm not one to constantly listen to tweaks and such, but I have heard a difference when I've changed the speaker wire in my system. Science can "prove" whatever it wants. Those who want to can trust science. I'll trust my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Amen Paul.Scott, you're off base with me, I don't believe in throwing money at audio and often find less expensive things to sound better. Your analogy is flawed too, I don't "believe" things so much as remain open to my own experience, trust my own experience and judgment, and don't believe any absolute truths. But it makes you feel superior to have this "certainty" lording it over others. Cool, I don't care. I"m done responding to your narrow view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015  But it makes you feel superior to have this "certainty" lording it over others. Cool, I don't care. I"m done responding to your narrow view.Didn't you express that sentiment several times in this thread already?Not that there's a limit...Yes, I did just read this thread as my lunch-time entertainment. Guilty. Nothing new here, same monotonous s..t as there was 15 years ago.Bottom-line from yours truly - spend the money on good speakers, leave the wires to those that "hear wire".    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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