Stop following an artist: how/why/when?

[xybert]

I've been umming and ahhing about cancelling my pre-order for the new Pat Metheny Unity Group album, Kin, due out in early February. Historically i've been a fan but there is no denying that i enjoy some of his stuff more than others. There's a ton of stuff to potentially dislike about Metheny's music, but more and more i've developed a fatal dislike for his tone on certain albums (it seems to vary from album to album) and i definitely feel that he is over-represented in my collection. The problem is that the stuff of his that i love i love and continuing to buy his albums is a bit like chasing that elusive high.

So here's the crux: I don't want to buy his new album, but i feel like i can't not. I just can't bring myself to say "that's it, case closed, my Metheny journey will go no further." Part of me feels trapped, like i'm in an abusive relationship that i can't get out of (joking). Another part of me feels like it would be like walking away from an old friend. From a collection prespective it just feels weird that my Metheny collection will go no further.

So anyway, i don't intend for this thread to be about Metheny, just using my current conundrum as an example (although feel free to talk about Metheny, if you want).

This is not "i've gone off this artist and i am going to sell off my collection of their music ASAP," or "i have enough Charlie Parker in my collection for now," this is "Historically i've followed this artist fairly avidly and i will treasure the memories but despite the fact that they are still fairly prolific i will follow them no further." Has anyone else got any experience of having followed an artist and at some point decided enough is enough? Was it a particular album that did it? Were you tempted to buy their next album? How did you get through it? Cheers.

[JSngry]

I didn't stop following McCoy's albums after Looking Out, far from it, but things were never quite the same again. Just reality, I suppose.

[mjzee]

I avidly followed John Scofield for a long time, but at a certain point, I felt like one more Scofield album wasn't going to add that much more to my enjoyment, and I stopped (it was the What I Say/Up All Night/Piety Street period). In general, I think it has something to do with inspiration. When an artist is on, it sounds like they've been touched by greatness. It's an invigorating, heady moment, and it's prudent to snap up as much as you can by that artist while it's happening. But most artists eventually return to earth, and their work becomes more prosaic. There are more than enough musicians/artists in the world that you can then safely turn to someone else. None of this is to denigrate Scofield (or Metheny or whoever); it's just the way it is.

Along these lines, I think of a Robert Silverberg novel from the early '70's, Dying Inside. It's about a guy who has some incredible power (was it the ability to read people's minds?), but the power is growing dim, until it disappears altogether, and the novel is about how he reacts to this occurring.

[CraigP]

I stopped buying albums from Dave Douglas and Joe Lovano, and at one point I was buying almost everything they put out. I don't think in either case there was a specific album that made me decide to stop buying further. With Douglas, it was the sense that he was getting less experimental and not placing as much emphasis on composition, and with Lovano I felt that he was a good stylist but wasn't saying anything new.

[BillF]

Well, this happens in every generation. I stopped following Miles when Bitches Brew came along.

In my youth I came across a guy who stopped following Charlie Parker after he left Jay McShann!

[JSngry]

Along these lines, I think of a Robert Silverberg novel from the early '70's, Dying Inside. It's about a guy who has some incredible power (was it the ability to read people's minds?), but the power is growing dim, until it disappears altogether, and the novel is about how he reacts to this occurring.

They could make a movie of this, call it The James Brown Story, and nobody would know the difference.

[CJ Shearn]

I've been umming and ahhing about cancelling my pre-order for the new Pat Metheny Unity Group album, Kin, due out in early February. Historically i've been a fan but there is no denying that i enjoy some of his stuff more than others. There's a ton of stuff to potentially dislike about Metheny's music, but more and more i've developed a fatal dislike for his tone on certain albums (it seems to vary from album to album) and i definitely feel that he is over-represented in my collection. The problem is that the stuff of his that i love i love and continuing to buy his albums is a bit like chasing that elusive high.

So here's the crux: I don't want to buy his new album, but i feel like i can't not. I just can't bring myself to say "that's it, case closed, my Metheny journey will go no further." Part of me feels trapped, like i'm in an abusive relationship that i can't get out of (joking). Another part of me feels like it would be like walking away from an old friend. From a collection prespective it just feels weird that my Metheny collection will go no further.

So anyway, i don't intend for this thread to be about Metheny, just using my current conundrum as an example (although feel free to talk about Metheny, if you want).

This is not "i've gone off this artist and i am going to sell off my collection of their music ASAP," or "i have enough Charlie Parker in my collection for now," this is "Historically i've followed this artist fairly avidly and i will treasure the memories but despite the fact that they are still fairly prolific i will follow them no further." Has anyone else got any experience of having followed an artist and at some point decided enough is enough? Was it a particular album that did it? Were you tempted to buy their next album? How did you get through it? Cheers.

I love Pat's stuff and I welcome the change to that Group-ish sound blended with the more straight ahead nature of the Unity Band. This is really PMG 2.0, and while fans on the Metheny Yahoo list complain it sounds too much like PMG (I've heard a few tracks) I don't mind that b/c I love the little additions to Pat's very familiar, yet still complex language, and I am anxiously awaiting for the album. Sure, you know when the glissandos moving in thirds, or metric shifts or modulations are coming, but that's part of the charm for me. I can say what is on the album is great, and sort of functions as a "let's get the new guys acquainted" type thing with new textures the way "Speaking of Now" did. Pat tends to have developments in album pairs of three, so I think the next one (whenever that will be) will really take chances. Xybert, I find listening to "The Way Up" is good preparation for "Kin".

Edited January 5, 2014 by CJ Shearn

[Chuck Nessa]

Great topic. No time to enter in but great topic.

[7/4]

I just stop buying them when they come out, but find a way to hear them first. I've saved a bit of money that way.

[StarThrower]

I used to buy every release from Metheny, Sco, Lovano, Kenny Garrett. Not anymore. I still love those cats, but I gotta move on. I liked Sco better when he had the heavy chorus/distortion blend. Now he's got that muted, clipped tone that I don't care for. I gave up on Garrett after the vocal album. And I'm not much of a Chris Potter fan, so Unity Band didn't intersest me.

I cooled on David Murray as well. Too many predictable solos. Last one I bought was Sacred Ground, which left me cold. Some artists I admire crank out way too many releases to keep up with. Frisell, and Steve Coleman come to mind.

Several others that I was happy to continue following, unfortunately died. Don Pullen, Steve Lacy.

Edited January 6, 2014 by starthrower

[xybert]

Edit: Many thanks for the responses all.

Well, this happens in every generation. I stopped following Miles when Bitches Brew came along.

There are definitely cases where a relatively drastic stylistic change that sticks takes place, however It's not unusual for an artist to be stylistically eclectic these days. Bitches Brew/In a Silent Way marked the start of a completey new era for Miles; nowadays an artist would go from Bitches Brew to ESP to On The Corner and then put out Sketches of Spain in that order. I don't think it's necessarilly a deal breaker like it used to be. Using Metheny as an example again, i'm sure a lot of fans would have happily skipped Zero Tolerance For Silence or even Orchestrion and then happily pick up where they left off when the next album arrives.

I love Pat's stuff and I welcome the change to that Group-ish sound blended with the more straight ahead nature of the Unity Band. This is really PMG 2.0, and while fans on the Metheny Yahoo list complain it sounds too much like PMG (I've heard a few tracks) I don't mind that b/c I love the little additions to Pat's very familiar, yet still complex language, and I am anxiously awaiting for the album. Sure, you know when the glissandos moving in thirds, or metric shifts or modulations are coming, but that's part of the charm for me. I can say what is on the album is great, and sort of functions as a "let's get the new guys acquainted" type thing with new textures the way "Speaking of Now" did. Pat tends to have developments in album pairs of three, so I think the next one (whenever that will be) will really take chances. Xybert, I find listening to "The Way Up" is good preparation for "Kin".

Is there any way you'd be able to provide a link to any Unity Group tracks? I've found it really frustrating not being able to preview anything. I really enjoyed the Unity Band album, and do find the idea of the expanded Unity Group to be appealing.

I just stop buying them when they come out, but find a way to hear them first. I've saved a bit of money that way.

I've been reflecting a bit lately on my unnecessary need to preorder stuff. What's wrong with just waiting and letting the dust settle?

The funny thing is i don't buy every single album that Metheny puts out, but the Unity Group album is one that i normally would buy. Not sure why skipping this album has to feel so final but it does for some reason. I know this is really sissy/first world problems territory but i think it's the emotional aspect that i'm struggling with more than anything. It really feels like cutting off a friendship.

Edited January 6, 2014 by xybert

[jeffcrom]

I bought most of David Murray's albums between 1976 and 1992 - not every one (I couldn't find every one), but lots. I was a huge fan. I still remember the first time I heard him - I was extremely excited that a young musician was influenced by Albert Ayler and Ben Webster seemingly equally, and that he had such a strong and recognizable style. I went to hear him every time he came to Atlanta, which in those days was fairly regularly. I heard him solo, with his octet, with Don Pullen on organ, and with the WSQ. My enthusiasm was reinforced by my friends and bandmates, most of whom were also Murray fans. Then I bought the 1992 big band album, and it was like a switch flipped. I don't think I've bought one of his albums since.

I think that it was a combination of things. That album was disappointing, but as starthrower said, Murray was getting more predictable. Early on, the youthful fire and excitement of his playing papered over limitations in his playing in a way that wasn't apparent at the time. And my tastes were also changing and developing; over time I increasingly recognized that his playing wasn't really organic - it was a pastiche of his influences. In retrospect, I had begun to get disenchanted with his work before 1992, but didn't want to admit that to myself. I will still occasionally pull one of his albums off the shelves, and enjoy it, but the impact is not nearly the same.

[Larry Kart]

At some point -- was it the early '80s? -- all or almost all the emotional conviction seemed to vanish from Jackie McLean's playing. The external aspects of his style remained much the same, but the music just seemed uninhabited, and uninhabited McLean is a weird thing to experience. I decided I didn't want that experience anymore.

[Neal Pomea]

More like I jumped fence for a genre (a generation?). I really enjoyed Jamaican dancehall rappers like Brigadier Jerry, Prince Jazzbo, Big Youth, Yellowman etc. in the early 80s, then just gave up on it when it went to the U.S. and became rap. To me it's as if the last 35 years of pop music has been largely dominated by a form that's as novelty and quickly gotten over as talking blues. Imagine the talking blues form dominating pop music for 35 years. I will be corrected here to be sure, but that is how it is for me.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Neal Pomea

[J.A.W.]

At some point -- was it the early '80s? -- all or almost all the emotional conviction seemed to vanish from Jackie McLean's playing. The external aspects of his style remained much the same, but the music just seemed uninhabited, and uninhabited McLean is a weird thing to experience. I decided I didn't want that experience anymore.

Couldn't agree more. In his last North Sea Jazz Festival performance he sounded bleak, uninvolved, hollow. It was pretty awful.

[Rooster_Ties]

Fell in love with Greg Osby's contemporaneous output around the time he first teamed with Jason Moran. But after Moran left, I've yet to hear an Obsy leader date that floated my boat nearly as well.

And it *wasn't* just the presence of Moran and his playing specifically -- rather I think Moran (or the context of his playing) that really brought out the best in Osby.

Still waiting/hoping for a reunion at some point, hopefully.

(And, come to think of it, personally I think all of Moran's best leader-dates were during the time he was in Osby's band (some with Osby, some not)-- so maybe it went both ways -- the sum of the parts was greater than the whole.)

Edited January 6, 2014 by Rooster_Ties

[CraigP]

A couple of salient points from recent posts:

From Xybert:

"I've been reflecting a bit lately on my unnecessary need to preorder stuff. What's wrong with just waiting and letting the dust settle?"

My strategy is changing to more of this in 2014, along with previewing more through Spotify, Bandcamp, Soundcloud etc. Got to rein it in a little.

From Jeffcrom:

"I still remember the first time I heard him (David Murray) - I was extremely excited that a young musician was influenced by Albert Ayler and Ben Webster seemingly equally, and that he had such a strong and recognizable style. "

I had this exact reaction when I bought Low Class Conspiracy - it still might be my favorite Murray album because of the rawness and the potential.

Edited January 6, 2014 by CraigP

[sidewinder]

In my youth I came across a guy who stopped following Charlie Parker after he left Jay McShann!

Philip Larkin? Jim Godbolt?

For me - I guess Chick Corea comes in to this category. After the first ECM Return To Forever LP. Having said that, I've enjoyed him live in the times I've seen him over the years but the CDs/LPs have left me a bit cold..

Also Blue Mitchell after 'Boss Horn' (although 'Mapenzi' was a return to form).

Edited January 6, 2014 by sidewinder

[Homefromtheforest]

For me it's Tomasz Stanko; I love his music and have nearly all his records and CDs dating back to the stuff with Komeda but his last few CDs on ECM have just not moved me. I made an effort to resist buying his latest "new York days" 2cd when it came out but succumbed last month when I couldn't resist a good price on amazon - I wish I didn't buy it! To my ears it's not much different then the last few polish 4tet CDs and the spark just isn't there for me anymore.

I'll just happily play some of my older well worn faves like the albums with Edward Vesala and Tony Oxley.

[BillF]

In my youth I came across a guy who stopped following Charlie Parker after he left Jay McShann!

Philip Larkin? Jim Godbolt?

Actually he was a technician at my school when I was in the sixth form in 1958. He clearly had been a jazz fan in his youth but hadn't been listening for about 15 years. I and my friends were playing the latest Ellington - Such Sweet Thunder - which this guy recognized as Ellington, though saying he'd changed enormously. When we said our favourite was Charlie Parker, he said, "I know him - he plays with Jay McShann."

In retrospect it was fascinating to hear the views of fans from the pre-bop era on the jazz that we youngsters played. A friend's father whose tastes were firmly lodged in the thirties couldn't abide Dizzy Gillespie's tone and said it sounded "like a cat being strangled in a bucket".

[BillF]

In my youth I came across a guy who stopped following Charlie Parker after he left Jay McShann!

Philip Larkin? Jim Godbolt?

For me - I guess Chick Corea comes in to this category. After the first ECM Return To Forever LP. Having said that, I've enjoyed him live in the times I've seen him over the years but the CDs/LPs have left me a bit cold..

Also Blue Mitchell after 'Boss Horn' (although 'Mapenzi' was a return to form).

Re Blue Mitchell, Stablemates of 1977 is a good one, though an inspired Victor Feldman is an added attraction.

[A Lark Ascending]

It's funny how things have changed. 30 years ago you had to wait years for a Kenny Wheeler or John Taylor album to appear. Now there's an embarrassment of choice. It seems to have become so much easier for musicians to get music out there that some take full advantage of the possibilities. I can understand that - the desire to document all your work and have it available as a means of making a little more money or a least as a calling card.

And what might seem like more of the same to us might have very special significance to the musician and be really exciting to a new listener buying a latest recording linked to a recent tour. Jadedness might be a price we pay for a wider historical awareness of the performer's prior journey.

Those of us who buy records need to be much more disciplined - the fact a musician has recordings out there doesn't mean we need them all. Easier said than done.

I actually find taking a break from a favourite musician for a while can help. I stopped buying Metheny records a fair time back but a chance hearing of one of the Unity band records reignited my interest. It doesn't need to be 'that's enough'. It can be 'that will do for now'.

Of course the record companies know how to manipulate the completist in us to perfection.

Edited January 6, 2014 by A Lark Ascending

[ejp626]

For a while I was picking up everything put out by Vijay Iyer as well as Rudresh Mahanthappa. It helps that they have a fair number of releases but not (perhaps) an overwhelming number. I'm generally finding that I am less interested in where they are heading now, and this is particularly true for Vijay. I was quite underwhelmed with his recent performance at the Vancouver Jazz Fest (with Tyshawn Sorey). I probably do have a Fieldwork recording (with Sorey), but I doubt I'll pick up any more by that particular ensemble.

[Leeway]

I wouldn't say I stopped following Brotzmann or Braxton, but for a while recently, each was releasing an overwhelming number of albums. Impossible to keep up with unless I considered not paying my mortgage. That forms a disincentive to stay with the artist. Right now Ivo Perelman is in the same mode. It seems he releases an album a month. It just stopped me in my tracks. Sometimes there can be too much of a good thing.

[ejp626]

I wouldn't say I stopped following Brotzmann or Braxton, but for a while recently, each was releasing an overwhelming number of albums. Impossible to keep up with unless I considered not paying my mortgage. That forms a disincentive to stay with the artist. Right now Ivo Perelman is in the same mode. It seems he releases an album a month. It just stopped me in my tracks. Sometimes there can be too much of a good thing.

There are certainly artists I decided fairly early on not to follow so intensely, precisely because they have just too much output to consider buying it all.